Taking a Toll on the Mass


#1

Some people wonder why others sweat the details about the Mass and its surroundings. After all “Jesus only cares that we attend the liturgy” (poppycock.) I think because after awhile, the details pile-up and they have a very real impact on how we worship and the sacrifice (no matter how small in comparison) we make for our Lord.

Let’s take a look at a few things that have been lost in many (certainly not all) parishes: silence before and after Mass; correct use of EMsHC; appropriate music; well trained altar servers; use of Sanctus bells; etc. etc. etc.

In many locations the above losses have been met with additions like: water-bottle fever, cell phones, leaving after receiving, armies of ill-trained and poorly outfitted EMsHC; odd music; oddly dressed praishioners; liturgical movement (ie “dance”), etc. etc. etc.

So yes, it bothers me when anyone tries to defend a practice that is detremental to attending the Mass. One at a time they might not be such a big deal, but added-up they make a huge difference and they are typically horribly difficult to remove once they are ingrained in a parish…


#2

I have been involved in too many debates over the importance of all of the “little things”. I completely agree with you.


#3

[quote=msproule]I have been involved in too many debates over the importance of all of the “little things”. I completely agree with you.
[/quote]

My “fantasy” is to start from a baseline of following what the Church instructs in liturgical matters and acting as if we were in the Oval Office in the White House on the more secular matters.

From there we can discuss legitimate options (per the Church) within the Mass…


#4

I was watching a special on Arlington and the rituals which the Marines perform during the changing of the guard. The people are always mesmerized by the precision and the exactness and the timelessness of the ritual. Everything, and I do mean everything involved in the ritual has importance. The ritual embodies a power and serves as a conduit to sense of something other than ourselves. That it is a ritual and that it stays the same signifies or underscores its importance. In addition the PBS special showed the meticulousness involved in putting together the soldier’s uniform. Every aspect of his uniform is inspected and his shoes are shined for 8 hours would you believe! The effect of all of this on the audience is palpable. People are transformed, moved, transfixed upon witnessing the rituals at Arlington. There’s no talking, there’s no irreverence, there’s no indifference. Everyone is moved, everyone stands a little straighter, everyone steps outside himself for that moment. As a matter of fact for those of you who viewed President Reagan’s funeral, who among us could say that we were not moved by Mrs. Reagan’s military escort? He was absolutely magnificent, and through him, I was able to come in contact with the virtues of goodness, honor, duty, etc. His dress, his demeanor, his posture all served as a conduit to the transcendent good Now if Arlington can do that, if a man in military dress can do that, just think of what the Mass can do when it is allowed to fully express what it is – The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass–with the most sublime event in the world occurring, that is the re-creation of the sacrifice on Calvary–and a constant reminder of the meaning of the Incarnation which is Christ unconditional love for us. Now shouldn’t every gesture, word, song, posture, dress bring forth this reality? The rituals of the Mass should involve all our senses as Incarnate people, so that we may have access, as much as earthly possible, to the Divine…Sadly the Mass in the way it’s being enacted today does not transmit such a reality. It’s occluded by casualness and the focus on us. So the more the Mass comes down to our level, the more we lose sight of its essence and the more it manifest itself in our dress, posture, etc. Now for those who say that it doesn’t matter, well, I can say that we would not let that attitude be our guide for a job interview or a first date. So I cannot understand for the life of me why we insist on our right to be casual in our dress, posture, reception at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Everything that is done at the Mass should take us out of ourselves; the music, the incense, the intonations, the responses, the reception of the Eucharist, etc. This hour on Sunday should leave us awestruck, but sadly it does not. We come in casually, and we dash out and dare anyone to say anything about it by accusing them of the worst sin possible these days — judgmentalism. Meanwhile the transcendence of the Mass (in many areas) is disappearing and as a result we’re losing our conduit to the Divine. Does anyone recall how the world, the entire world, was absolutely transfixed by all things Catholic during the death of John Paul, the Interregnum,and the election of Benedict? Why was the world transfixed? Ritual, Transcendence, Timelessness. Supernaturalness. The world responded. The funeral? The world responded. The conclave, with the cardinals processing into the Sistine Chapel and into eternity? The world responded. The bells? The bells, Habaemus Papum (sp?)? The world responed. The world needs ritual. it needs this conduit even as it seeks to tear all traces of ritual down in the name of progress. But we know what the world needs. It needs all things Catholic in all its full audacious Catholicity, and if we don’t endow the world with our Catholicity which begins and ends at the Mass in all its mystery, majesty, and splendor, then ladies and gentlemen we have done the world a grave disservice which has eternal ramifications.


#5

I’m with you. Too many people treat mass like it is just another social gathering, and show so little respect for the sacredness of the surroundings and of the mass itself. I understand the need to avoid judging harshly, but the accusation of “being judgemental” toward others is too frequently used to cover a host of petty sins and weaknesses.

This is not a family dinner, it’s worship. If you dress up and put on your best behavior for special events and parties, then why on earth would you fail to do the same for the most special occasion of all?


#6

[quote=cecelia]I was watching a special on Arlington and the rituals which the Marines perform during the changing of the guard. The people are always mesmerized by the precision and the exactness and the timelessness of the ritual. Everything, and I do mean everything involved in the ritual has importance. The ritual embodies a power and serves as a conduit to sense of something other than ourselves. That it is a ritual and that it stays the same signifies or underscores its importance. In addition the PBS special showed the meticulousness involved in putting together the soldier’s uniform. Every aspect of his uniform is inspected and his shoes are shined for 8 hours would you believe! The effect of all of this on the audience is palpable. People are transformed, moved, transfixed upon witnessing the rituals at Arlington. There’s no talking, there’s no irreverence, there’s no indifference. Everyone is moved, everyone stands a little straighter, everyone steps outside himself for that moment. As a matter of fact for those of you who viewed President Reagan’s funeral, who among us could say that we were not moved by Mrs. Reagan’s military escort? He was absolutely magnificent, and through him, I was able to come in contact with the virtues of goodness, honor, duty, etc. His dress, his demeanor, his posture all served as a conduit to the transcendent good Now if Arlington can do that, if a man in military dress can do that, just think of what the Mass can do when it is allowed to fully express what it is – The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass–with the most sublime event in the world occurring, that is the re-creation of the sacrifice on Calvary–and a constant reminder of the meaning of the Incarnation which is Christ unconditional love for us. Now shouldn’t every gesture, word, song, posture, dress bring forth this reality? The rituals of the Mass should involve all our senses as Incarnate people, so that we may have access, as much as earthly possible, to the Divine…Sadly the Mass in the way it’s being enacted today does not transmit such a reality. It’s occluded by casualness and the focus on us. So the more the Mass comes down to our level, the more we lose sight of its essence and the more it manifest itself in our dress, posture, etc. Now for those who say that it doesn’t matter, well, I can say that we would not let that attitude be our guide for a job interview or a first date. So I cannot understand for the life of me why we insist on our right to be casual in our dress, posture, reception at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Everything that is done at the Mass should take us out of ourselves; the music, the incense, the intonations, the responses, the reception of the Eucharist, etc. This hour on Sunday should leave us awestruck, but sadly it does not. We come in casually, and we dash out and dare anyone to say anything about it by accusing them of the worst sin possible these days — judgmentalism. Meanwhile the transcendence of the Mass (in many areas) is disappearing and as a result we’re losing our conduit to the Divine. Does anyone recall how the world, the entire world, was absolutely transfixed by all things Catholic during the death of John Paul, the Interregnum,and the election of Benedict? Why was the world transfixed? Ritual, Transcendence, Timelessness. Supernaturalness. The world responded. The funeral? The world responded. The conclave, with the cardinals processing into the Sistine Chapel and into eternity? The world responded. The bells? The bells, Habaemus Papum (sp?)? The world responed. The world needs ritual. it needs this conduit even as it seeks to tear all traces of ritual down in the name of progress. But we know what the world needs. It needs all things Catholic in all its full audacious Catholicity, and if we don’t endow the world with our Catholicity which begins and ends at the Mass in all its mystery, majesty, and splendor, then ladies and gentlemen we have done the world a grave disservice which has eternal ramifications.
[/quote]

Thanks be to God.

Easily one of the finest postings I have ever seen on these forums.

You hit the nail on the head. To steal/modify one of ABp. Sheen’s famous lines:

There are not 100 Catholics who truly disagree with your posting, yet there are thousands who will reject it because it negatively impacts their personal agendas.

Thank you. You made my day.


#7

[quote=TeriGator]I’m with you. Too many people treat mass like it is just another social gathering, and show so little respect for the sacredness of the surroundings and of the mass itself. I understand the need to avoid judging harshly, but the accusation of “being judgemental” toward others is too frequently used to cover a host of petty sins and weaknesses.

This is not a family dinner, it’s worship. If you dress up and put on your best behavior for special events and parties, then why on earth would you fail to do the same for the most special occasion of all?
[/quote]

So very true…


#8

[quote=cecelia]I was watching a special on Arlington and the rituals which the Marines perform during the changing of the guard. The people are always mesmerized by the precision and the exactness and the timelessness of the ritual. Everything, and I do mean everything involved in the ritual has importance. The ritual embodies a power and serves as a conduit to sense of something other than ourselves. That it is a ritual and that it stays the same signifies or underscores its importance. In addition the PBS special showed the meticulousness involved in putting together the soldier’s uniform. Every aspect of his uniform is inspected and his shoes are shined for 8 hours would you believe! The effect of all of this on the audience is palpable. People are transformed, moved, transfixed upon witnessing the rituals at Arlington. There’s no talking, there’s no irreverence, there’s no indifference. Everyone is moved, everyone stands a little straighter, everyone steps outside himself for that moment. As a matter of fact for those of you who viewed President Reagan’s funeral, who among us could say that we were not moved by Mrs. Reagan’s military escort? He was absolutely magnificent, and through him, I was able to come in contact with the virtues of goodness, honor, duty, etc. His dress, his demeanor, his posture all served as a conduit to the transcendent good Now if Arlington can do that, if a man in military dress can do that, just think of what the Mass can do when it is allowed to fully express what it is – The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass–with the most sublime event in the world occurring, that is the re-creation of the sacrifice on Calvary–and a constant reminder of the meaning of the Incarnation which is Christ unconditional love for us. Now shouldn’t every gesture, word, song, posture, dress bring forth this reality? The rituals of the Mass should involve all our senses as Incarnate people, so that we may have access, as much as earthly possible, to the Divine…Sadly the Mass in the way it’s being enacted today does not transmit such a reality. It’s occluded by casualness and the focus on us. So the more the Mass comes down to our level, the more we lose sight of its essence and the more it manifest itself in our dress, posture, etc. Now for those who say that it doesn’t matter, well, I can say that we would not let that attitude be our guide for a job interview or a first date. So I cannot understand for the life of me why we insist on our right to be casual in our dress, posture, reception at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Everything that is done at the Mass should take us out of ourselves; the music, the incense, the intonations, the responses, the reception of the Eucharist, etc. This hour on Sunday should leave us awestruck, but sadly it does not. We come in casually, and we dash out and dare anyone to say anything about it by accusing them of the worst sin possible these days — judgmentalism. Meanwhile the transcendence of the Mass (in many areas) is disappearing and as a result we’re losing our conduit to the Divine. Does anyone recall how the world, the entire world, was absolutely transfixed by all things Catholic during the death of John Paul, the Interregnum,and the election of Benedict? Why was the world transfixed? Ritual, Transcendence, Timelessness. Supernaturalness. The world responded. The funeral? The world responded. The conclave, with the cardinals processing into the Sistine Chapel and into eternity? The world responded. The bells? The bells, Habaemus Papum (sp?)? The world responed. The world needs ritual. it needs this conduit even as it seeks to tear all traces of ritual down in the name of progress. But we know what the world needs. It needs all things Catholic in all its full audacious Catholicity, and if we don’t endow the world with our Catholicity which begins and ends at the Mass in all its mystery, majesty, and splendor, then ladies and gentlemen we have done the world a grave disservice which has eternal ramifications.
[/quote]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for putting exactly what I feel, believe and know to be true about the sacredness of the Mass into words!!! :clapping:


#9

[quote=cecelia]I was watching a special on Arlington and the rituals which the Marines perform during the changing of the guard. The people are always mesmerized by the precision and the exactness and the timelessness of the ritual. Everything, and I do mean everything involved in the ritual has importance. The ritual embodies a power and serves as a conduit to sense of something other than ourselves. That it is a ritual and that it stays the same signifies or underscores its importance. In addition the PBS special showed the meticulousness involved in putting together the soldier’s uniform. Every aspect of his uniform is inspected and his shoes are shined for 8 hours would you believe! The effect of all of this on the audience is palpable. People are transformed, moved, transfixed upon witnessing the rituals at Arlington. There’s no talking, there’s no irreverence, there’s no indifference. Everyone is moved, everyone stands a little straighter, everyone steps outside himself for that moment. As a matter of fact for those of you who viewed President Reagan’s funeral, who among us could say that we were not moved by Mrs. Reagan’s military escort? He was absolutely magnificent, and through him, I was able to come in contact with the virtues of goodness, honor, duty, etc. His dress, his demeanor, his posture all served as a conduit to the transcendent good Now if Arlington can do that, if a man in military dress can do that, just think of what the Mass can do when it is allowed to fully express what it is – The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass–with the most sublime event in the world occurring, that is the re-creation of the sacrifice on Calvary–and a constant reminder of the meaning of the Incarnation which is Christ unconditional love for us. Now shouldn’t every gesture, word, song, posture, dress bring forth this reality? The rituals of the Mass should involve all our senses as Incarnate people, so that we may have access, as much as earthly possible, to the Divine…Sadly the Mass in the way it’s being enacted today does not transmit such a reality. It’s occluded by casualness and the focus on us. So the more the Mass comes down to our level, the more we lose sight of its essence and the more it manifest itself in our dress, posture, etc. Now for those who say that it doesn’t matter, well, I can say that we would not let that attitude be our guide for a job interview or a first date. So I cannot understand for the life of me why we insist on our right to be casual in our dress, posture, reception at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Everything that is done at the Mass should take us out of ourselves; the music, the incense, the intonations, the responses, the reception of the Eucharist, etc. This hour on Sunday should leave us awestruck, but sadly it does not. We come in casually, and we dash out and dare anyone to say anything about it by accusing them of the worst sin possible these days — judgmentalism. Meanwhile the transcendence of the Mass (in many areas) is disappearing and as a result we’re losing our conduit to the Divine. Does anyone recall how the world, the entire world, was absolutely transfixed by all things Catholic during the death of John Paul, the Interregnum,and the election of Benedict? Why was the world transfixed? Ritual, Transcendence, Timelessness. Supernaturalness. The world responded. The funeral? The world responded. The conclave, with the cardinals processing into the Sistine Chapel and into eternity? The world responded. The bells? The bells, Habaemus Papum (sp?)? The world responed. The world needs ritual. it needs this conduit even as it seeks to tear all traces of ritual down in the name of progress. But we know what the world needs. It needs all things Catholic in all its full audacious Catholicity, and if we don’t endow the world with our Catholicity which begins and ends at the Mass in all its mystery, majesty, and splendor, then ladies and gentlemen we have done the world a grave disservice which has eternal ramifications.
[/quote]

Wow. This is beautiful. You’ve said what I feel so much better and more eloquently than I ever could have. I wish you would considering sending this to the USCCB. I wish each Bishop, in turn, would send it to all the priests in their diocese. Thank you so much.


#10

The difference between Reagan’s funeral and the Mass is that the Mass is supposed to be participatory. I don’t remember seeing any 5-year-old children at the president’s funeral.

The president’s funeral was a show.

The Mass is not a show. It is a meal, and it is a communal celebration. Yes, people should comport themselves with dignity, dress appropriately, take it seriously, and not slouch.

I have always loved the fact that Catholics can’t sing. Compare your average Sunday Mass in, say, Peoria, with a nice solemn Anglican service, and we sound awful. Many Catholics couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket.

I love the fact that people notice we can’t sing because it means that everyone is singing. Little kids, deaf people, and, God bless him, my husband, who has the most wonderful speaking voice imaginable but CANNOT SING. We’re all praising God as best we can.

I’ll take that over neatly shined shoes and rigid, dead ritual any day. I can’t imagine that the odd water bottle has “grave eternal ramifications.” Lighten up.


#11

Thank you, Penny. :slight_smile: :thumbsup: :clapping:

I somehow don’t think my experience of the Mass, or the reverence of the Mass itself, would be heightened in any way if I spent 8 hours shining my shoes. :rolleyes:

Ritual is good. Rigidity is not.



Crazy Internet Junkie Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag


#12

[quote=CarolAnnSFO]Thank you, Penny. :slight_smile: :thumbsup: :clapping:

I somehow don’t think my experience of the Mass, or the reverence of the Mass itself, would be heightened in any way if I spent 8 hours shining my shoes. :rolleyes:

Ritual is good. Rigidity is not.

Crazy Internet Junkie Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

[/quote]

I’ll second that…:clapping:


#13

Wow, it takes you 8 hours? I can understand why you wouldn’t want to do that then.

Actually, no one is trying to be the fasion police here, or to impose rigid rules that make everyone miserable. I don’t care if you wear white after Labor Day, or have scuffed shoes, or didn’t get time to blowdry your hair and put on makeup. The cost of your clothing doesn’t matter, either. It’s more about the way people dress down and wear things like shorts, ratty or disrespectful Tshirts, and very revealing clothing. Plus it’s the general attitude of irreverence, as evidenced by the amount of chatting and dashing out while the Eucharist is still in the esophagus, to name just a couple of examples.

This may be a “meal”, but it is not served family style and it’s not about the community. The mass is the highest form of worship that exists in the Church, and it’s all about Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I stand by my statement: if you would dress up to go to parties or graduations or job interviews, why on earth would you not dress up to spend time in the presence of our Lord and God?

Is it really such a hardship to be on your best behavior for one or two hours a week?


#14

[quote=TeriGator]Wow, it takes you 8 hours? I can understand why you wouldn’t want to do that then.
[/quote]

The “8 hours” isn’t my figure; I got it from the quoted piece above. I can buff my shoes into respectability in about 90 seconds. :slight_smile:

[quote=TeriGator]Is it really such a hardship to be on your best behavior for one or two hours a week?
[/quote]

It isn’t any hardship at all, and who says we’re not? It’s just that some people are ultra-quick to jump down other peoples’ throats – you want to take one lousy sip of water so you don’t start hacking and coughing for 20 minutes straight, and right away, they assume you’re waltzing into Mass late, wearing a bathing suit, slurping ice cream while chatting on a cell phone, slouching in the pew with one leg draped over the pew in front of you, and running out the minute you receive Communion. The one just doesn’t follow the other.

Crazy Internet Junkie Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag


#15

[quote=Penny Plain]The difference between Reagan’s funeral and the Mass is that the Mass is supposed to be participatory. I don’t remember seeing any 5-year-old children at the president’s funeral.

The president’s funeral was a show.

The Mass is not a show. It is a meal, and it is a communal celebration. Yes, people should comport themselves with dignity, dress appropriately, take it seriously, and not slouch.

I have always loved the fact that Catholics can’t sing. Compare your average Sunday Mass in, say, Peoria, with a nice solemn Anglican service, and we sound awful. Many Catholics couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket.

I love the fact that people notice we can’t sing because it means that everyone is singing. Little kids, deaf people, and, God bless him, my husband, who has the most wonderful speaking voice imaginable but CANNOT SING. We’re all praising God as best we can.

I’ll take that over neatly shined shoes and rigid, dead ritual any day. I can’t imagine that the odd water bottle has “grave eternal ramifications.” Lighten up.
[/quote]

You are horribly mistaken. You couldn’t be more mistaken. Your incorrect (purposefully?) comments reveal a prime reason for the terrible decline in the Mass surroundings and the actual celebration of the Mass in many parishes.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is primarily just that, a SACRIFICE! Do you understand that? It’s the unbloody re-presentation of GOD the SON to GOD the FATHER for propitiation of OUR sins! The “communal meal” aspects of the Mass are SUBORDINATE to the SACRIFICE!

Sadly those ignorant of the Mass have pushed the “communal meal” aspect so hard that fewer and fewer Catholics even know/remember that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a SACRIFICE! That’s one area I have to concede to the Tridentiners – at least the mechanics of the Tridentine Mass underscore that it’s a SACRIFICE, not a communal meal that is “presided” over. I won’t even get into your pernicious straw-dog arguments.

Earlier today I read one of the single finest posts I have ever seen on these forums. I agree – with a bit of polishing it would be worth to sending to all the Bishops – beginning with the Pope.

I feel sad that it had to be followed with the fetid misinformation that you felt the need to contribute…

I know! I’m gonna go back and read that sublime posting from cecelia…


#16

[quote=CarolAnnSFO]Thank you, Penny. :slight_smile: :thumbsup: :clapping:

I somehow don’t think my experience of the Mass, or the reverence of the Mass itself, would be heightened in any way if I spent 8 hours shining my shoes. :rolleyes:

Ritual is good. Rigidity is not.

Crazy Internet Junkie Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

[/quote]

I somehow knew that the reason for including that bit of information in cecelia’s wonderful posting would be be lost on some of those who have less of an understanding of the Mass…


#17

[/font]
The “8 hours” isn’t my figure; I got it from the quoted piece above. I can buff my shoes into respectability in about 90 seconds. :slight_smile:

It isn’t any hardship at all, and who says we’re not? It’s just that some people are ultra-quick to jump down other peoples’ throats – you want to take one lousy sip of water so you don’t start hacking and coughing for 20 minutes straight, and right away, they assume you’re waltzing into Mass late, wearing a bathing suit, slurping ice cream while chatting on a cell phone, slouching in the pew with one leg draped over the pew in front of you, and running out the minute you receive Communion. The one just doesn’t follow the other.

[font=Comic Sans MS]Crazy Internet Junkie Society
****Carrier of the Empty of all Logic Bag

Cecelia’s posting was a direct hit to those who are always searching for an excuse, and their anger is showing!


#18

[quote=Pariah Pirana]I somehow knew that the reason for including that bit of information in cecelia’s wonderful posting would be be lost on some of those who have less of an understanding of the Mass…
[/quote]

I am profoundly grateful I don’t have your particular “understanding” of the Mass, and even more profoundly grateful that I don’t live in your world. How incredibly arrogant of you to assume you know anything about my understanding of the Mass.

[quote=Pariah Pirana]Cecelia’s posting was a direct hit to those who are always searching for an excuse, and their anger is showing!
[/quote]

I’m not one tenth as angry as you are, and your anger shows in your every post. You’ll be name-calling next. Sheesh.

And an excuse for what, might I add? What exactly is it that you think I’m looking for an excuse for? This is making less sense by the minute.

Oh well, never mind, that’s all I’m posting in this thread too; I don’t like the taste of bait. :rolleyes: And I’d rather worry about the planks in my own eyes than the splinters in others’.

{{checking my “ignore” list}}


#19

[quote=CarolAnnSFO]I am profoundly grateful I don’t have your particular “understanding” of the Mass, and even more profoundly grateful that I don’t live in your world. How incredibly arrogant of you to assume you know anything about my understanding of the Mass.

I’m not one tenth as angry as you are, and your anger shows in your every post. You’ll be name-calling next. Sheesh.

And an excuse for what, might I add? What exactly is it that you think I’m looking for an excuse for? This is making less sense by the minute.

Oh well, never mind, that’s all I’m posting in this thread too; I don’t like the taste of bait. :rolleyes: And I’d rather worry about the planks in my own eyes than the splinters in others’.

{{checking my “ignore” list}}
[/quote]

You’re just spinning now. It’s not my personal understanding of the Mass – it’s what the Church teaches – check the CCC. Your kumbaya interpretation is not only wrong, it’s horribly retrogressive.

It makes little difference if you attack me personally. I just want to stomp-out misinformation about the Mass like the type that you felt a need to post.

Cecelia’s posting speaks for inself…


#20

[quote=cecelia]I was watching a special on Arlington…
[/quote]

Aside from the fact that I agree with you totally I do have to make one clarification. As a Naval Officer, I am of course partial to my Marine Corps brethren but the inidividuals who guard the Tomb of the Unknown are United States Army. Given the outstanding job that they do, they truly deserve to be noted correctly. God Bless the “Old Guard”.


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