“Talmud which was Torah”: no Talmud was never Torah

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Jesus was a Jew; what Book did he and Mary beleived in and acted upon?

Originally Posesd by swariffin:

**Jesus and Mary believe in the **True Torah, not the Talmud which was Torah, BUT added by many others created rules by the Pharisee during Their time.

**Paarsurrey **says:

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Buddha and Krishna


I’m sure you do, paarsurrey.

Meanwhile, on the subject of ‘Talmud’, I would suggest that the easiest way for a Muslim to understand is for them to bear in mind the words ‘tafsir’, ‘hadith’ and ‘fiqh’.

Originally Posted by paarsurrey:
Paarsurrey says:

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Buddha and Krishna



So you are with me; we Muslims never think ‘tafsir’, ‘hadith’ and ‘fiqh’ are Quran. **There is not a single Muslim in the world **who would recite in Salat- the Muslim formal prayer, any passages from ‘tafsir’, ‘hadith’ and ‘fiqh’ in place of reciting from Quran; that clears the Muslim concept.


Quite what that has to do with my post, I can’t possibly imagine.

Are you saying that you’re a ‘Qur’an-only’ Muslim? That you just take the words of the Qur’an literally without the benefit of the history of Muslim Qur’anic scholarship? Without any insights from great Muslim sages?

I’m just indicating to you the Muslim equivalents of ‘Talmud’ - rather than you just making up your own meaning.


Don’t be angry my friend.

I put it again from wikipedia.



The Talmud (Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד) is a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, customs, and history. It is a central text of Rabbinic Judaism, second only to the **Hebrew Bible **in importance.


So the first Jewish resource of guidance is Torah. Talmud cannot take its place.

The same is with Muslims; Quran is the first and foremost source of guidance of Muslims of all denominations.

There was no book of Hadith in Muhammad’s time. Hadith was collected 150-200 after the demise of Muhammad. Muslims were not short of anything when Hadith books were not written.

Hadith, fiqh, tafsir, history etc are servants to Quran; if these say anything which is even remotely against Quran; it is not to be practiced.

I think now you understand. Talmud is different from Torah.


He is a heretic Muslim.

As for Jesus and Mary, they followed the Torah and the Talmud (written and oral tradition). Though I wouldn’t mind a Jew’s perspective on the Talmud, since they would know better than I about the Talmuds in Judaism. (My knowledge of Judaism is very limited)

Torah is 'The Law’
After that comes ‘Nevi’im’ (the Prophets)
After that comes ‘Kethuvim’ (the Writings)
Together Torah, Nevi’im and Kethuvim make up the ‘Tanakh’ (which Christians call the ‘Old Testament’).
Talmud is part of the ‘Oral Torah’, which is the equivalent of your Hadith, Fiqh etc.

You can’t understand Judaism by just reading the Torah or Tanakh, you need the ‘Oral Torah’ - like you can’t understand Islam by just reading the Qur’an.

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