Tanakh : an Old Testament question


#1

I stumbled upon a WND article with a ton of replies from evangelicals etc. and some catholic replies and noted one in particular kept on referring to this “Tanakh” and how Paul was using this as a resource? for his teachings. I may have it wrong but that is the gist.
Tanakh - canon of the Hebrew Bible. One definition is found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh

This is what part of his contribution to the comment/quote:

“Moreover, as for you [Timothy], continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you to salvation through faith in Messiah Yeshua. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:14-17

Korruptor: Paul certainly wasn’t referring to an as-yet unwritten and uncanonized New Testament. Thus your point is invalidated by the very Bible you referenced, as Paul clearly states that the Tanakh, in and of itself, was capable of instruction to salvation, defining of righteousness, edification, almost like Paul took Messiah’s word literally, “God’s word is truth” (John 17), or God’s word, “Every word of God is flawless” (Pro 30:5) / “Your righteousness is everlasting your Torah is truth” (Ps 119:142).

This particular poster is well read but caustic. Oh how I wished this person could be silenced. He , among others, are interminably anti catholic but would love to silence them.
I’m a catholic with fairly limited catholic education except for some light reading, not a scholar by any means.

Does anyone have a clue as to what this guy is talking about or is this not a good question to pose? Anyone with experience with Old Testament studies as it relates to the early church?

thanks

patrick8888


#2

Hi! Nice to see someone with the same name. :smiley:

Just an aside: Tanakh is simply the Hebrew term for the Hebrew Bible - what we would call the “Old Testament.” To be more specific, it’s an acronym for the three sections of the Hebrew Bible as Jews consider it: Torah (the Law), Nevi’im (the Prophets), and Ketuvim (the Writings). Combine those three letters (the Hebrew alphabet originally didn’t have any vowels; only consonants) and what you’ll come up with is TaNaK.

I’ll just say this for now. I think the main problem with the poster is that he assumes that every reference to God’s “word” must somehow be a reference to the written Scriptures.


#3

“Moreover, as for you [Timothy], continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you to salvation through faith in Messiah Yeshua. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:14-17

The sacred writings of Tanakh/OT can instruct us to salvation… interpreted through faith in Messiah Yeshua/ Christ Jesus.

Can someone more learned than I come about to validate or deny what I have just offered as a rebuttal?


#4

The poster was correct, at least according to Catholic teaching.

For example, the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament states regarding this text that in referring to the “Scriptures,” Paul was referring to the Old Testament. The commentary to these verses explains:

“The N[ew] T[estament had not been written when Timothy was a young boy. Jewish children often began instruction in the Torah at age five…The books of the OT point the way to Christ (Rom 1:2-3) and continue to instruct his disciples for life in the New Covenant (Rom 15:4) (CCC 121-23, 128-30).”

The word “Tanakh” is the Hebrew name for what Catholics call “the Old Testament.” The “T” in “Tanakh” comes from the word “Torah” which is a reference to the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis-Deuteronomy.

If you tried to silence this individual you would find yourself teaching contrary to Catholic teaching.


#5

Am I confused? I thought the guy you want silenced was promoting the idea that Jesus is not essential to salvation, and that the Law is salvation.

Furthermore, I thought he was basing it off this excerpt: “with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you to salvation”
thus insisting that, since the NT was not yet written, the OT was able to instruct us to salvation, or that we could be justified by the Law.

Now, I can’t remember whether or not we can theoretically be justified by the Law, but because the Law is impossible for us to follow it only winds up condemning us instead of saving us (if I understand the proper Catholic belief).

But if he is stating that the Law is sufficient for us then he is stating that we don’t need Jesus, which, as my previous post above indicates, I think is bunk.


#6

The Exile proves that you can’t be saved by adherence to the Law…because it is beyond human power to adhere to it. See: Romans.


#7

Salvation was never by works. The idea that we would merit heaven simply by not sinning apart from grace is unique to Protestantism. Refutin this, St. Paul says, “For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God” (Romans 4:2). Even if Abraham were just according to his works, this might be reason to boast before men, but it does not merit the supernatural reward of heaven. Salvation is by grace, through faith.


#8

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