Teen bashed unconscious in anti-gay attack


#1

nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10809422


#2

Never been to New Zealand, but it's hard to make conclusion from a 1 page article. We know what the press reported but the circumstances could be different. Could this teen have been harassing the men or committing assault&battery against the man or men after which the man or men attacked him :confused: Is this gay a drug junky as people who do gay/lesbian conduct have more drug junky problems :confused: Possible the circumstances could be different from what we've read. Only this teen & his attacker(s) know why it happened.


#3

[quote="anon1234567, post:1, topic:286205"]
nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10809422

[/quote]

So?


#4

That’s quite a post! Thanks for sharing! :smiley:


#5

[quote="wisecath, post:2, topic:286205"]
Never been to New Zealand, but it's hard to make conclusion from a 1 page article. We know what the press reported but the circumstances could be different. Could this teen have been harassing the men or committing assault&battery against the man or men after which the man or men attacked him :confused: Is this gay a drug junky as people who do gay/lesbian conduct have more drug junky problems :confused: Possible the circumstances could be different from what we've read. Only this teen & his attacker(s) know why it happened.

[/quote]

huh? :confused:


#6

All involved undoubtedly could use our prayers.

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.


#7

[quote="wisecath, post:2, topic:286205"]
Never been to New Zealand, but it's hard to make conclusion from a 1 page article. We know what the press reported but the circumstances could be different. Could this teen have been harassing the men or committing assault&battery against the man or men after which the man or men attacked him :confused: Is this gay a drug junky as people who do gay/lesbian conduct have more drug junky problems :confused: Possible the circumstances could be different from what we've read. Only this teen & his attacker(s) know why it happened.

[/quote]

The circumstances could have been different from the article. Or, the boy's account could be exactly what happened. Either way, it's disgusting that people are beating each other up in the street. Isn't Auckland a big city? I don't think I'd want my teenage son to walk home alone late at night.


#8

[quote="april32010, post:5, topic:286205"]
huh? :confused:

[/quote]

Are you saying Huh because I raise the possibility the circumstances could be different from what the press reported :confused: It's possible the gay could've been harassing the man or men who attacked him & it's possible the gay could've committed assault&battery on the man (or men) before the man (or men) or men reacted violently. It's possible the gay is not be the innocent victim that the press article has said & he is trying to get sympathy.

[quote="Allegra, post:7, topic:286205"]
The circumstances could have been different from the article. Or, the boy's account could be exactly what happened. Either way, it's disgusting that people are beating each other up in the street. Isn't Auckland a big city? I don't think I'd want my teenage son to walk home alone late at night.

[/quote]

Only the boy & his attacker(s) know why it happened. If my post is controversial, it's because gay bashing victims must face the same scrutiny as gay bashers do. If a gay is being anti-social by committing a crime such as harass a man or commit assault&battery on the man after which the man or men react violently, then the gay's anti-social conduct must be considered in deciding if the man reacted justly or excessively. We know what the press has written. But media is often pro-gay. If a gay is anti-social, the press often won't report this because they don't want to lose advertisers if gay/lesbian groups complain. Don't know the neutrailty of the journalist who wrote this as I have again, not been to New Zealand & don't know 1st hand neutrailty of journalists when covering gay bashing cases. Anyhow to repeat, gays who are bashing victims must have the same scrutiny as gay bashers do & if a gay bashing victim was being anti-social & it was left out by the press, then with the Internet, that must be said, even if gay/lesbian groups dislike it.


#9

[quote="wisecath, post:2, topic:286205"]
Never been to New Zealand, but it's hard to make conclusion from a 1 page article. We know what the press reported but the circumstances could be different. Could this teen have been harassing the men or committing assault&battery against the man or men after which the man or men attacked him :confused: Is this gay a drug junky as people who do gay/lesbian conduct have more drug junky problems :confused: Possible the circumstances could be different from what we've read. Only this teen & his attacker(s) know why it happened.

[/quote]

Of course we don't know all the details (and you never do in any crime until the trial has taken place) but I have to say you seem to be very ready to jump in with some hypothetical specultation that I suspect you wouldn't dream of doing if the victim wasn't gay. Saying that "only the teen and his attacker know why it happened" seems to suggest that you are condoing the attack which I find quite repellent. Nowhere do you condemn the use of violence.

There are many instances of unprovoked attacks on gay people in all parts of the world, and in some places gay people can be face the death penalty so let's try not to pretend that prejudice and hostility does not exist. Some people are even attacked for "appearing to be gay." Perhaps most importantly, regardless of the circumstances, I would hope that any Catholic would strongly condemn any such attack in the strongest possible terms.


#10

[quote="estesbob, post:3, topic:286205"]
So?

[/quote]

Aside from feeling compassion for the victim, my thoughts were the same as yours. In 31 years of investigating various crimes, I spoke with many who were assaulted because of their heterosexual exploits. Yet, that was not news for some reason. Each of those heterosexuals was just as victimized, just as assaulted. Was it less serious simply because they were of the same sexual orientation as the offender? If a homosexual was assaulted by another homosexual, would it somehow be better than if they were assaulted by a heterosexual? :confused:


#11

Sorry, but I'm missing something here.

How did the attackers know the victim was gay?

It sounds like the brutes were hoping to harass; possibly rape a woman
- hence the "wolf whistles".

They took out their anger and frustration through violence when they discovered a (albeit feminine) male.

I mean just because a guy seems feminine does not make him gay.

Conversely; wisecath, there's nothing to scrutinize here. The attackers ran off because they knew they were evil and horrible. There is nothing you can come up with that would justify being brutalized in this way. I understand you are trying to make a point, but to defend this kind of sick animalistic behavior just makes you appear twisted.


#12

[quote="InspiritCarol, post:11, topic:286205"]
Conversely; wisecath, there's nothing to scrutinize here. The attackers ran off because they knew they were evil and horrible. There is nothing you can come up with that would justify being brutalized in this way. I understand you are trying to make a point, but to defend this kind of sick animalistic behavior just makes you appear twisted.

[/quote]

Gay bashing victim must be subject to scrutiny. We know what the gay has said, but it's possible that he was beaten up by 1 man who reacted to criminal abuse the gay did-we were not there. Gay/lesbian sexual conduct is anti-social & people who take part in gay/lesbian sexual conduct have higher rates of anti-social behavior.

[quote="liturgyluver, post:9, topic:286205"]
Of course we don't know all the details (and you never do in any crime until the trial has taken place) but I have to say you seem to be very ready to jump in with some hypothetical specultation that I suspect you wouldn't dream of doing if the victim wasn't gay. Saying that "only the teen and his attacker know why it happened" seems to suggest that you are condoing the attack which I find quite repellent. Nowhere do you condemn the use of violence.

There are many instances of unprovoked attacks on gay people in all parts of the world, and in some places gay people can be face the death penalty so let's try not to pretend that prejudice and hostility does not exist. Some people are even attacked for "appearing to be gay." Perhaps most importantly, regardless of the circumstances, I would hope that any Catholic would strongly condemn any such attack in the strongest possible terms.

[/quote]

My posts suggest that gay bashing victims face the same scrutiny as gay bashers do. If a gay is being anti-social, then a man has a right to end the harassment or other anti-social conduct by the gay. Media is often pro-gay & if a gay was anti-social, then it doens't surprise me if the press left it out. It's possible the gay had committed assault&battery before the man or men reacted.

Almost all the violence against gays and lesbians are domestic violence, this includes murder. If a homosexual or lesbian beats up their gay/lesbian lover in a domestic quarrel, this assault/battery is usually not reported in press. If a gay/lesbian kills their gay/lesbian lover, then it's usually in the local press but not national news. But gay bashings where a gay is bashed or killed by a straight man makes national news, because it's strange & odd. These cases must be judged individually. With 'gay panic' defense, if a defense lawyer wants to raise criminal abuse that a gay did such as harassment, indecent exposure or assault and battery the gay did before the straight man reacted violently , a jury will decide if man's reaction was just or excess & if it's excess, then what degree to convict on . Murder has difft. degrees-1st, 2nd & Manslaughter. Predictably, gay groups often raise Matthew W. Shepard, but here's news about him which gets little talk, before his October 1998 killing.

  1. MW Shepard was described by acquaintances, even some friends as 'obnoxious, moody and arrogant.' He chose University of Wyo of all the universities he was accepted into, but he then put down the University and town of Laramie. Yes, it was his free speech right to say that but the point is that he had no appreciation of the college who tried to educated him. He was described by his own friends as moody, obnoxious & self-centered.

  2. Methew Wayne Shepard had AIDS, but continued to be promiscuous including getting drunk and using Ecstasy encounters in bars. He was a drunkard junky who took Ecstasy mixed with anti-depressants he took for PTSD. This information comes from friends and acquaintances who knew him & was known long before the Nov. 2004 20/20 show.

  3. In August 1998, a drunk Metthew W. Shepard harassed a bartender in Cody Wyoming. He asked the bartender for a walk around lake, after which the bartender said no. But rather than end it, he kept asking him repeatedly, grabbed the bartender's arm & jacket, threatened him with comments such as 'you're afraid of what I can do to you' after which the bartender decked him, k/o him. The next day, Shepard made up story to Cody cops about being homosexually gang raped by 3, but the medical tests disproved him as no sex happened. Cops interviewed bartender, waitress who saw what happened & concluding the bartender self-defended against a drunk Shepard, no charge was filed.

The excuse Judy Shepard has made for this is that her son had PTSD, was drunk and that once the tests disproved him, he 'dropped' the charge-when it's the cops who do so. Maybe MW Shepard believed his story-only he knows. But he chose to worsen his PTSD with drugs & alochol. Once the Cody cops concluded the bartender's story was true, they should have arresed Shepard for assault and battery and falsely reporting crime, but why the did not is unknown-there was enough proof for a jury to have convicted him. Yes, his October 1998 killing is another topic, but him being a crime victim in October 1998, did not make him a good person. He treated people poorly before his death who mixed alcohol and drugs with anti-depressants. Even if you distrust his 2 killers stories, those are facts about Shepard told by his own friends & family which are fact, including the excuse his mom makes for the Cody incident.


#13

[quote="liturgyluver, post:9, topic:286205"]
Of course we don't know all the details (and you never do in any crime until the trial has taken place) but I have to say you seem to be very ready to jump in with some hypothetical specultation that I suspect you wouldn't dream of doing if the victim wasn't gay. Saying that "only the teen and his attacker know why it happened" seems to suggest that you are condoing the attack which I find quite repellent. Nowhere do you condemn the use of violence.

There are many instances of unprovoked attacks on gay people in all parts of the world, and in some places gay people can be face the death penalty so let's try not to pretend that prejudice and hostility does not exist. Some people are even attacked for "appearing to be gay." Perhaps most importantly, regardless of the circumstances, I would hope that any Catholic would strongly condemn any such attack in the strongest possible terms.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#14

WiseCath - you obviously have some horrible axe to grind. Violence is never justified. Unprovoked attacks do happen. Quoting old cases to back up your "theory" is highly insulting to this person who it seems was attacked randomly. As Catholics we must be generous and kind and live with the light of Jesus, and treat others with the love that God has shown for us.


#15

[quote="wisecath, post:2, topic:286205"]
Never been to New Zealand, but it's hard to make conclusion from a 1 page article. We know what the press reported but the circumstances could be different. Could this teen have been harassing the men or committing assault&battery against the man or men after which the man or men attacked him :confused: Is this gay a drug junky as people who do gay/lesbian conduct have more drug junky problems :confused: Possible the circumstances could be different from what we've read. Only this teen & his attacker(s) know why it happened.

[/quote]

I doubt any teen would harass three men. Where's the headshake smiley?

And he's a person not "a gay" or "this gay."

Just because we (as Catholics) don't agree with someone' lifestyle doesn't mean we have the right to denigrate them. In fact we should treat them with more rather than less charity.

We are called to do better. Love our enemies, do good to those who hate us, and all that.


#16

[quote="liturgyluver, post:14, topic:286205"]
WiseCath - you obviously have some horrible axe to grind. Violence is never justified. Unprovoked attacks do happen. Quoting old cases to back up your "theory" is highly insulting to this person who it seems was attacked randomly. As Catholics we must be generous and kind and live with the light of Jesus, and treat others with the love that God has shown for us.

[/quote]

If I have an axe to grind Liturgy Luver, it's because there are many gays who harass other men in public restrooms, commit assault&battery on men & even attempt homosexual rape, before the men react by bashing the gay. I don't know if this gay was beaten up by 3 men but you're concluding by this 1 page article it was an unprovoked attack, when it's possibly different. What if the gay in this article has a history of committing assault&battery in bathrooms or even once committed a homosexual rape :confused: It's possible that this gay tried to commit homosexual rape on a man & the man reacted by hitting him-self-defense, after which the gay makes up story of being beaten up by 3 men to get sympathy. If my post sounds highly insulting to this gay victim, it's because I'm not sure if he was attacked randomly as this article suggests & it wouldn't surprise me if there are things which the news isn't saying.

[quote="triumphguy, post:15, topic:286205"]
I doubt any teen would harass three men. Where's the headshake smiley?

And he's a person not "a gay" or "this gay."

[/quote]

If the gay in this article was high that day, then it's possible he could harass 3 men. We weren't there & it wouldn't surprise me if this is what happened. But again, as I told LiturgyLuver above, it's possible this gay was not beaten up by 3 men but hit unconscious by a man who self-defended after the gay tried to commit homosexual rape & then goes to the cops to make up story of being beaten up by 3 to get sympathy. Again, we only know the gay's story & what the press has repeated.


#17

[quote="wisecath, post:16, topic:286205"]
If I have an axe to grind Liturgy Luver, it's because there are many gays who harass other men in public restrooms, commit assault&battery on men & even attempt homosexual rape, before the men react by bashing the gay. I don't know if this gay was beaten up by 3 men but you're concluding by this 1 page article it was an unprovoked attack, when it's possibly different. What if the gay in this article has a history of committing assault&battery in bathrooms or even once committed a homosexual rape :confused: It's possible that this gay tried to commit homosexual rape on a man & the man reacted by hitting him-self-defense, after which the gay makes up story of being beaten up by 3 men to get sympathy. If my post sounds highly insulting to this gay victim, it's because I'm not sure if he was attacked randomly as this article suggests & it wouldn't surprise me if there are things which the news isn't saying.

[/quote]

You seem to be adding the little 'confused smiley face' as if it softens the blow of any of the awful things you're intimating here. It doesn't. You don't seem confused at all. In fact as Liturgy said you seem to have a very large and irrational axe to grind. So unless you can find an article that supports your idea that "this gay" who's name is Zakk by the way, is one of the many big, bad, frightening, menacing, murderous rape-y gays you've encountered or heard tales about, we all get it.

You want to come up with any possible excuse to blame the victim. Well done.


#18

[quote="anon1234567, post:1, topic:286205"]
nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10809422

[/quote]

Although any kind of violent attack is reprehensible, when one is attacked solely on the basis of a perceived or actual feature, such as appearing or being gay, Jewish, Black, Asian, elderly, physically or mentally disabled, overweight, a pastor or nun, it is even more reprehensible since the motivation of the attack is often hatred of that individual per se, as well as the group they belong to, and the intent to do them bodily harm is explicitly due to who they are perceived to be. Not all will agree with my view, and, admittedly, sometimes the intent of the perpetrator may not be evident.


#19

[quote="ConcernedApathy, post:17, topic:286205"]
You seem to be adding the little 'confused smiley face' as if it softens the blow of any of the awful things you're intimating here. It doesn't. You don't seem confused at all. In fact as Liturgy said you seem to have a very large and irrational axe to grind. So unless you can find an article that supports your idea that "this gay" who's name is Zakk by the way, is one of the many big, bad, frightening, menacing, murderous rape-y gays you've encountered or heard tales about, we all get it.

You want to come up with any possible excuse to blame the victim. Well done.

[/quote]

I gave no conclusions but said the circumstances could be different. If suggesting the possibility the gay in this case was not a victim of unprovoked violence by 3 men as the press says & if that's so, then it must be said. Those of us posting including me were not there. I don't make conclusions by 1 page article. I'm not going to trust something just because a 1 page news article says so, which is why it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out it didn't happen the way this article wrote it. Sometimes people make false accusations & we don't know if this story of being beaten up by 3 was made up.


#20

[quote="wisecath, post:12, topic:286205"]
Gay bashing victim must be subject to scrutiny. We know what the gay has said, but it's possible that he was beaten up by 1 man who reacted to criminal abuse the gay did-we were not there. Gay/lesbian sexual conduct is anti-social & people who take part in gay/lesbian sexual conduct have higher rates of anti-social behavior.

My posts suggest that gay bashing victims face the same scrutiny as gay bashers do. If a gay is being anti-social, then a man has a right to end the harassment or other anti-social conduct by the gay. Media is often pro-gay & if a gay was anti-social, then it doens't surprise me if the press left it out. It's possible the gay had committed assault&battery before the man or men reacted.

Almost all the violence against gays and lesbians are domestic violence, this includes murder. If a homosexual or lesbian beats up their gay/lesbian lover in a domestic quarrel, this assault/battery is usually not reported in press. If a gay/lesbian kills their gay/lesbian lover, then it's usually in the local press but not national news. But gay bashings where a gay is bashed or killed by a straight man makes national news, because it's strange & odd. These cases must be judged individually. With 'gay panic' defense, if a defense lawyer wants to raise criminal abuse that a gay did such as harassment, indecent exposure or assault and battery the gay did before the straight man reacted violently , a jury will decide if man's reaction was just or excess & if it's excess, then what degree to convict on . Murder has difft. degrees-1st, 2nd & Manslaughter. Predictably, gay groups often raise Matthew W. Shepard, but here's news about him which gets little talk, before his October 1998 killing.

  1. MW Shepard was described by acquaintances, even some friends as 'obnoxious, moody and arrogant.' He chose University of Wyo of all the universities he was accepted into, but he then put down the University and town of Laramie. Yes, it was his free speech right to say that but the point is that he had no appreciation of the college who tried to educated him. He was described by his own friends as moody, obnoxious & self-centered.

  2. Methew Wayne Shepard had AIDS, but continued to be promiscuous including getting drunk and using Ecstasy encounters in bars. He was a drunkard junky who took Ecstasy mixed with anti-depressants he took for PTSD. This information comes from friends and acquaintances who knew him & was known long before the Nov. 2004 20/20 show.

  3. In August 1998, a drunk Metthew W. Shepard harassed a bartender in Cody Wyoming. He asked the bartender for a walk around lake, after which the bartender said no. But rather than end it, he kept asking him repeatedly, grabbed the bartender's arm & jacket, threatened him with comments such as 'you're afraid of what I can do to you' after which the bartender decked him, k/o him. The next day, Shepard made up story to Cody cops about being homosexually gang raped by 3, but the medical tests disproved him as no sex happened. Cops interviewed bartender, waitress who saw what happened & concluding the bartender self-defended against a drunk Shepard, no charge was filed.

The excuse Judy Shepard has made for this is that her son had PTSD, was drunk and that once the tests disproved him, he 'dropped' the charge-when it's the cops who do so. Maybe MW Shepard believed his story-only he knows. But he chose to worsen his PTSD with drugs & alochol. Once the Cody cops concluded the bartender's story was true, they should have arresed Shepard for assault and battery and falsely reporting crime, but why the did not is unknown-there was enough proof for a jury to have convicted him. Yes, his October 1998 killing is another topic, but him being a crime victim in October 1998, did not make him a good person. He treated people poorly before his death who mixed alcohol and drugs with anti-depressants. Even if you distrust his 2 killers stories, those are facts about Shepard told by his own friends & family which are fact, including the excuse his mom makes for the Cody incident.

[/quote]

Your post sounds like you are condoning, or justifying the murder of Matthew Shepard.

Shame on you if that is what you are saying, or implying.

Alot of people exhibit behaviors that others don't like, that doesn't give ANYONE the right to beat someone that severely, let alone kill them.


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