Tell me Catholics do not subscribe to this horrendous notion


#1

The following article is from the CRI (Christian Reseach Institute). How on earth can any loving person believe that people through absolutely NO fault of thier own are, in fact (not possibly but in fact) condemmed to Hell for all eternity?

Am I missing something or does this have contradiction written all over it?

It states "People don’t end up in hell because of what they haven’t heard; they get there because of their failure to act responsibly on what God has already revealed to them ", then goes on to state that if they have not heard of Jesus Christ they are lost. How are the two (God’s revelation of himself and the knowledge of Jesus Christs existence) directly tied together? I’d think they are not. One may know of God without being told of God however one cannot know of Jesus Christ if one has not been told of Jesus Christ.

I’d love to ask Hank Hanagraaff (of CRI) , how a loving God can create creatures and provide them NO reasonable way to achieve life eternal.

Hank is the first to state that we have a moral code written on our hearts. I’d conclude that same moral code applies to our inherent knowledge of justice. This apparent lack of justice is diametrically opposed to the moral justice written on our hearts. I have to wonder how anyone can perceive this as just.

Article:

Although God is sovereign and he can deal with individuals in extraordinary ways, He tells us in the Bible that there’s no other way to reach Him except through His one provision — the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6). From this, we can only conclude that those who have never heard of Christ are indeed lost. They’re lost as a result of their own actions, and not because of God. People don’t end up in hell because of what they haven’t heard; they get there because of their failure to act responsibly on what God has already revealed to them — whether through creation in Romans 1, through their conscience in Romans 2, or through the light of Christ in Romans 3. Let us, therefore, labor all the more to bring God’s message to a world in desperate need of salvation (Rom. 1:16; 10:13-15). And remember that if those who’ve never heard the gospel are indeed going to go to heaven, why should we even be involved in foreign missions? Let’s just keep everyone in the dark. In fact if you really draw this argument out to its logical conclusion, Jesus Christ did not come to seek and save those who are lost, he would have come to seek and lose those who are saved. He would then not be the great saviour of the world, he would become it’s great destroyer.


#2

why don’t you take a deep breath, check out the CA tracts on Salvation to find out what the Catholic church really teaches, then come on back. Why are you cruising non-Catholic sites, taking snippets from them, and asking us if they are Catholic teaching? Go to the best, ignore the rest. Also please check out the forum rules which ask us to post links, not to quote extensively from articles.


#3

The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life” (CCC 843).

How are we to understand this affirmation “Outside the Church there is no salvation”], often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the head through the Church which is his body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the [Second Vatican] Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it (CCC 846).

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation (CCC 847).
__________________Here you go, no Catholics do not believe that.God Bless:)


#4

The Catholic Church does not teach that. The quotes sound Calvinist. :stuck_out_tongue:

I also suggest that you get yourself a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The best $8.00 or so that you’ll spend after a good Catholic Bible. :slight_smile:

Pax vobiscum,


#5

Mijoy,

Those who didn’t hear the Gosple “though no fault of their own” BUT did good and just are saved because of their works. Revelation clearly speaks that “we are judged according to our works.”

Also, Peter speaks that “whatever is just/good in every nation is acceptable to God.” Simple because God is the source of all that is good.

The reason why we have to continue spreading the Gospel is to hasten the salvation of God to men. Because we are saved by grace, and when we are baptized we receive the gift of grace.

Pio


#6

The Catholic Church does not teach this heresy.

LETTER OF THE SACRED CONGREGATION OF THE HOLY OFFICE Archbishop Richard J. Cushing

Given on August 8, 1949 explaining the true sense of Catholic doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Church.

The Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office has examined again the problem of Father Leonard Feeney and St. Benedict Center.

… this dogma [there is no salvation outside the Church] must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.

… no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

… that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

Toward the end of this same encyclical letter, when most affectionately inviting to unity those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church, [Pope Pius XII]
mentions those who “are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire,” and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation, but on the other hand states that they are in a condition “in which they cannot be sure of their salvation” since “they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church” … With these wise words [Pope Pius XII] reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire, and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally well in every religion …

… it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith: “For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him” (Heb. 11:6) …


#7

Ever hear Jesus talk about the blind leading the blind? Hank Hanegraaf is a very articulate, educated, and well-reasoned blind person. He comes from the Reformed Calvanistic school of eschatology, in fact James Kennedy was his mentor, until they had a falling out of sorts regarding some discussion of God’s plan in the Zodiac. With that, when it comes to “Christian essentials” Hank is a very good expositor of scripture. However, he patently misrepresents the Catholic position (surprise!). His refutations of dispensational pre-trubulation rapture are right on the money, as well as his dissecting of the “Word of Faith” heretical movement within Pentacostalism (a heresy of a heresy, watch out, it can make you dizzy trying to follow).

Remember, if it ain’t Catholic, it ain’t 100% correct. As far as I am concerned, if you have no other recourse for listening, Hanegraaf is about the best of the bunch on Christian radio. I have that problem in DC. There is no Catholic radio out here. We have about 8 Christian radio stations, from the fairly benign (Janet Parshall’s America) to the downright vitriolic Anti-Catholic (Jack Van Impe et al).


#8

According to the Cathechism, items numbered 846-848 it appears that the Church officially seems to teach that God can lead people to whom who are not Catholic, if those people seriously seek to pelase and know God during their lives.


#9

[quote=Scott_Lafrance]Ever hear Jesus talk about the blind leading the blind? Hank Hanegraaf is a very articulate, educated, and well-reasoned blind person. He comes from the Reformed Calvanistic school of eschatology, in fact James Kennedy was his mentor, until they had a falling out of sorts regarding some discussion of God’s plan in the Zodiac. With that, when it comes to “Christian essentials” Hank is a very good expositor of scripture. However, he patently misrepresents the Catholic position (surprise!). His refutations of dispensational pre-trubulation rapture are right on the money, as well as his dissecting of the “Word of Faith” heretical movement within Pentacostalism (a heresy of a heresy, watch out, it can make you dizzy trying to follow).

Remember, if it ain’t Catholic, it ain’t 100% correct. As far as I am concerned, if you have no other recourse for listening, Hanegraaf is about the best of the bunch on Christian radio. I have that problem in DC. There is no Catholic radio out here. We have about 8 Christian radio stations, from the fairly benign (Janet Parshall’s America) to the downright vitriolic Anti-Catholic (Jack Van Impe et al).
[/quote]

I also have no Catholic radio and unfortunatley spend a great deal of time commuting. I accredit Christian Evangelical radio largely for bringing me back to faith when I realized the completely Godless life I was leading was going nowhere fast. Christian radio certainly helped but doctrine such as this troubled me greatly. I’d invision some lovely little old Jewish woman who baked cookies for the neighborhood children burning in Hell when she died because she was true to her heritage and never became Christian. This thought tormented me to no end. For this and other reasons I revisited the Catholic faith (I was born into Catholicism) largely chose Catholicism because it simply felt so right to go to church and worship and receive our Lord as opposed to being preached to and singing my way through service which I found against my grain (I’m sure they were glad to be rid of me and my voice).

However having said this I do have a certain admiration and fondness for Hanagraaff. Beyond this I often question my authority to question an individual who is clearly of a much greater biblical knowledge then myself and very likely has a higher IQ.

Visiting his web site today I stumbled across this article and began to question if the Catholic faith believed the same thing and I was somehow ignoring or avoiding it.

As an Engineer I have a tendency to look at things mathematically and statiscally. I can’t rule out the odds that a brilliant and well informed man is wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt. Rendering his teaching statistically insignificant (for that matter I can’t render Atheism statistically insignificant). Esspecially one who articulates his message so well. Therefore I’d be lying if I said I could totally discount some doctrine as some of you of probably stronger faith seem to be capable of doing.

I thank you all so much for your replies.

I wonder what would happen to Christianity if Hanagraaff (apologize if speling is incorrect) and John McCather (another powerful evangelist who loves the Lord) saw the truth and converted to Catholicism. Imagine one Church, wouldn’t be a powerful testimony to Jesus Christ !!!


#10

If you think that Hanegraaff quote is bad, look at this quote which says that if someone never heard of Jesus, because they were living in Siberia or somewhere, then that’s because they really weren’t searching for God in the first place. And they’re damned to hell, automatically, because they don’t know Jesus. From **(Geisler, N. L., & Howe, T. A. 1992. When critics ask : A popular handbook on Bible difficulties . Victor Books: Wheaton, Ill.) **:

[left]http://www.myfortress.org/tp.gifOne question raised is: [/left]

http://www.myfortress.org/tp.gif"The Bible says that there will be people from ‘every tongue tribe and nation’ in heaven, what happens if a tribe gets destroyed before the Bible can be translated into their language or a missionary sent to them with the gospel?"

http://www.myfortress.org/tp.gifThe answer is that when any child from any tribe in the world has died before the age of accountability (Deuteronomy 1:39; 2 Samuel 12:20-23; Isaiah 7:15-16) they will go to heaven (Do Children Go To Heaven?****). And if a missionary or a Bible wasn’t sent to them it is clear that none of them were truly seeking God. The Bible is clear that if you truly seek God that He will be found (Jeremiah 29:11-13; 1 Chronicles 28:9) and that God has placed us in the best time and place for this to happen (Acts 17:27).


#11

[quote=Mijoy2]… I accredit Christian Evangelical radio largely for bringing me back to faith when I realized the completely Godless life I was leading was going nowhere fast.
Christian radio certainly helped …!!!
[/quote]

It helped me too…

[quote=Mijoy2]…
but doctrine such as this troubled me greatly. I’d invision some lovely little old Jewish woman who baked cookies for the neighborhood children burning in Hell when she died because she was true to her heritage and never became Christian. This thought tormented me to no end. For this and other reasons I revisited the Catholic faith (I was born into Catholicism) largely chose Catholicism because it simply felt so right to go to church and worship and receive our Lord as opposed to being preached to and singing my way through service which I found against my grain (I’m sure they were glad to be rid of me and my voice).

[/quote]

Me too, and I can’t sing either,.

[quote=Mijoy2]…
However having said this I do have a certain admiration and fondness for Hanagraaff. Beyond this I often question my authority to question an individual who is clearly of a much greater biblical knowledge then myself and very likely has a higher IQ.

[/quote]

… I’ve never heard of him, and I doubt he has a higher IQ, maybe Biblical IQ

[quote=Mijoy2]…
Visiting his web site today I stumbled across this article and began to question if the Catholic faith believed the same thing and I was somehow ignoring or avoiding it.

[/quote]

… NO we do not believe nice little old Jewish ladies rot in H*** because they were raised in another religion and can not reject the religion they were taught and raised with

[quote=Mijoy2]…
As an Engineer I have a tendency to look at things mathematically and statiscally.
[/quote]

…Almost the same here, Mathematician by schooling, computers by trade.

[quote=Mijoy2]…

I can’t rule out the odds that a brilliant and well informed man is wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt. Rendering his teaching statistically insignificant (for that matter I can’t render Atheism statistically insignificant). Esspecially one who articulates his message so well. Therefore I’d be lying if I said I could totally discount some doctrine as some of you of probably stronger faith seem to be capable of doing.
[/quote]

…The Pope disagrees with this so called “brilliant guy”. I agree with the Pope totally. IT makes a lot more sense that “Those who live righteous and upright lives, BUT who have not come to accept Jesus as Lord, will share in the building of the Kingdom of God.” (or words basically to that effect).

There are lot of ‘smart’, eloquent -misinformed people out there with all kinds of ideas. Adolf Hitler was a tremendously gifted speaker, but he was a class A1 nutcase. Carl Sagan was a brillant man, but he could never come to believe in God.

Just because you can talk, and just because you are smart, does not make you right.

Christ’s Peace
WC


#12

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