Temptation?


#1

The Gospel today speaks about the temptation of Jesus in the desert. Are we really tempted by the devil to commit sin, or, do we just give in to our selfish desires and the pleasures of this world because we enjoy them? Is the devil really behind every mistake that we make, and sin we commit?


#2

[quote="tonyg, post:1, topic:315291"]
The Gospel today speaks about the temptation of Jesus in the desert. Are we really tempted by the devil to commit sin, or, do we just give in to our selfish desires and the pleasures of this world because we enjoy them? Is the devil really behind every mistake that we make, and sin we commit?

[/quote]

Theologians categorize the aggravators of sin into three major groups: the world, the devil, and the flesh (ourselves). Consider this verse from Ephesians 2:
"...you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind..."


#3

[quote="tonyg, post:1, topic:315291"]
The Gospel today speaks about the temptation of Jesus in the desert. Are we really tempted by the devil to commit sin, or, do we just give in to our selfish desires and the pleasures of this world because we enjoy them? Is the devil really behind every mistake that we make, and sin we commit?

[/quote]

It depends if you believe in the existence of the devil or not and if you believe how much influence that belief sways your actions. It is difficult to imagine in any court there being a defence, that the 'devil made me do it' - It comes down I suppose to how much one feels responsible for one's actions, and takes responsibility for them.


#4

We are really tempted by fallen angels. I doubt anyone is directly tempted by Satan :shrug:

Now we do fight three enemies: our flesh, the world of darkness, and the fallen angels. But our war is against the fallen angels. The flesh will be glorified. The world will pass. But they will harass us until the end of time.

It is not proper to blame it all on the devil. That's why there is such thing as spiritual direction. That's why we have the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius :rolleyes: But to forget that ultimately the devil is responsible for our fallen nature, and that he does actually tempt us, that's a huge mistake. Remember what St. Peter wrote in the New Testament ;)


#5

[quote="aprilfloyd, post:3, topic:315291"]
It depends if you believe in the existence of the devil or not

[/quote]

We don't have that choice. Even beside the fact that Scripture clearly reveals his existence, everyone who is Catholic must know that the existence of the devil and the fact that he posesses a certain dominion over mankind by reason of Adam's sin is a teaching de fide, meaning it is an essential part of Catholic faith, and denial of it is a sin of heresy.


#6

[quote="R_C, post:5, topic:315291"]
We don't have that choice. Even beside the fact that Scripture clearly reveals his existence, everyone who is Catholic must know that the existence of the devil and the fact that he posesses a certain dominion over mankind by reason of Adam's sin is a teaching de fide, meaning it is an essential part of Catholic faith, and denial of it is a sin of heresy.

[/quote]

Hi

Not sure if I am following you, but of course you have that choice.

'The devil' will exist whether you believe it or not and he will not exist whether you believe it or not. Ideally this would be established by proof. But in it's absence we only have unreliable belief. In my catholic upbringing there never been any proof brought forward for the devil's existence and in that respect was not a large part of catholicism.

Heresy is inevitable, we all probably on this forum, are more swayed by one religion over another and therefore heresy, in relation to religion is inescapable. e,g,jesus is not the son of god - the muslim says true, the jew says true, but the catholic says heresy, but they all have faith in the same god.


#7

:) Yes, what I meant is that a Catholic must give the assent of reason to the existence of the devil. To resist this revealed truth is in fact a sin of heresy, which is not inevitable at all :) Heresy is something a Catholic commits when he obstinately and repeatedly refuses to accept a teaching that is critical to Christian doctrine. Protestants, for instance, cannot commit heresy by not accepting what the Pope teaches.

As for unreliable belief, that's not the case for those who have a ministry of active rebuttal of the fallen angels. Tell them that there's no proof of the devil :D


#8

[quote="R_C, post:7, topic:315291"]
:) Yes, what I meant is that a Catholic must give the assent of reason to the existence of the devil. To resist this revealed truth is in fact a sin of heresy, which is not inevitable at all :) Heresy is something a Catholic commits when he obstinately and repeatedly refuses to accept a teaching that is critical to Christian doctrine. Protestants, for instance, cannot commit heresy by not accepting what the Pope teaches.

As for unreliable belief, that's not the case for those who have a ministry of active rebuttal of the fallen angels. Tell them that there's no proof of the devil :D

[/quote]

What if the doctrine proves to be wrong? Is it still heresy? surely truth is more important?

Can you explain what - ministry of active rebuttal of the fallen angels. Tell them that there's no proof of the devil means - and where would I find a copy of their proof


#9

[quote="cap76, post:2, topic:315291"]
Theologians categorize the aggravators of sin into three major groups: the world, the devil, and the flesh (ourselves). Consider this verse from Ephesians 2:
"...you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind..."

[/quote]

the devil seems to have tempted Jesus in the three ways you mention:
the flesh - hunger - stones into bread
the world - power and dominioon over the world
the "devil" - jump from the steeple - tempting God - asking Him to do your will, rather than you doing His

the idea of the devil makes sense to me


#10

I have always felt the devil is an excuse for people to not accept responsibility for their actions


#11

The reason I returned to the Church two years ago is because I had a conversation with the devil. I had become interested in the paranormal and one night on 1/11/11 at 11:11 pm, I started recording the quiet in my home. I was trying to record EVP's, voices in the white noise. The recording was about an hour long and loaded with demonic voices. At one point I heard, "My name is Lucifer and I have reserved a place for you down here." When my heart started beating again, I went downstairs to calm my nerves with a cigar and started yelling at Lucifer in my head telling him he'd never get my soul, I'd repent first. When I listened to the very next segment on the recording, I heard, "Why do you insult me Ralph, you won't be insulting me when you're down here serving me." I also heard this male voice describing all sorts of lewd acts with a woman named Mary. Then I heard a female voice say, "Hi, my name is Mary." I heard a lion roar but didn't realize the significance so I googled it up and found 1 Peter 5:8, "Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." The whole recording was loaded with vulgar language that I couldn't repeat here. Then I had two incidents in my home, the first was a whistle as if someone were in the next room whistling yoo hoo. I was home alone. Then I heard a loud roar coming from the same place, again I was alone. I emailed my parish pastor and asked him if I could come back to church. I made an appointment and my first confession in over 35 years. Three Rosaries, a Saint Michael Chaplet and a Divine Mercy daily and after two years I haven't had any more incidents. Oh yes there is a devil!


#12

[quote="aprilfloyd, post:10, topic:315291"]
I have always felt the devil is an excuse for people to not accept responsibility for their actions

[/quote]

there are numerous references throughout the Bible, and in today's Gospel reading

in Rev 20:10 Then the devil, who led them astray, was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet are, and their torture will not come to an end, day or night, for ever and ever.

i understand that ppl do not like this aspect of cosmology

i don't know but there seems to be more to this than a personification of an aspect of our human nature


#13

I assume it is metaphorical not literal. Why would a loving god create such an abomination,


#14

it is a metaphor of what?

why is there such an abomination?

Rev 20:27 Nothing unclean may come into it: no one who does what is loathsome or false, but only those who are listed in the Lamb’s book of life.

consider that all that will remain is love;
the burning lake is God’s love,
the sulfur and pain the sin that His vision reveals


#15

[quote="Aloysium, post:14, topic:315291"]
it is a metaphor of what?

why is there such an abomination?

Rev 20:27 Nothing unclean may come into it: no one who does what is loathsome or false, but only those who are listed in the Lamb's book of life.

consider that all that will remain is love;
the burning lake is God's love,
the sulfur and pain the sin that His vision reveals

[/quote]

Good Question. I assume it is a metaphor for evil. In history the concept of evil or wicked ness played a big part in law - phrases such as 'wicked intent' ,'evil intent' these have been dropped over time as the concept of 'evil' proves less relevant. Plus it serves as a primitive method of 'control' and to keep people in check from doing wrong.


#16

Rev 20:10 Then the devil, who led them astray, was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet are, and their torture will not come to an end, day or night, for ever and ever.

Rev 20:14 Death and Hades were emptied of the dead that were in them; and every one was judged as his deeds deserved. Then Death and Hades were hurled into the burning lake. This burning lake is the second death; 15 and anybody whose name could not be found written in the book of life was hurled into the burning lake.

Rev 21:8 But the legacy for cowards, for those who break their word, or worship obscenities, for murderers and the sexually immoral, and for sorcerers, worshippers of false gods or any other sort of liars, is the second death in the burning lake of sulphur.'

Rev 21:27 Nothing unclean may come into it: no one who does what is loathsome or false, but only those who are listed in the Lamb's book of life.

Devil burns for eternity - he is sin/the burning lake itself

sinners die a second death in the burning lake

God gives us our existence,
when we are loving, we are of His kingdom

if we do not know love, we cannot be part of it, and He will take back that being He granted us

bottom line, imho: this is reality,
which everyone has a hint of deep inside, and
that is why it could be used as a method of control


#17

[quote="aprilfloyd, post:8, topic:315291"]
What if the doctrine proves to be wrong? Is it still heresy? surely truth is more important?

Can you explain what - ministry of active rebuttal of the fallen angels. Tell them that there's no proof of the devil means - and where would I find a copy of their proof

[/quote]

Clearly you - like me some years ago - have a very unclear grasp of the meaning of being a disciple of Christ. One of the basic tenets is: Christ does not lie, nor does Scripture. When they speak of Satan as a living spiritual being, they don't mean a metaphor. When they say: "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over the world of darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places." When Christ says: "I saw Satan fall from the sky like lightning" or "Here comes the prince of this world, he has no authority over me." But I understand that in your situation the Sacred Scripture is perhaps simply "scripture" and not proof of anything.

Truth is the single most important thing.

Christ said: "I am the Truth". He also told His Church: "I will be with you until the end of time", and He told His apostles and their successors: "those who hear you hear me, those who reject you reject me". Of course - in matters of faith and morals. On these, the Church teachings do not err. The world, in 20 centuries, has seen all sorts of societies arbitrarily establishing and imposing what was right and wrong, good and bad, lawful and illegal. Emperors have fought the teachings of the Church and legitimately elected representatives have opposed them. But the Church has not backed of one step on the timeless truths she has been entrusted with by God - regardless of what societies or other religions or even schismatic groups have said or done.

Now let's be a bit more specific. The "doctrine", so to speak, is subdivided into different levels. Teachings called de fide are known to be right. Examples include the Holy Trinity, The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, etc. At the bottom of the list we have sententia probabilis, which are theological opinions that are probable (f.ex. the opinion of whether or not Our Lady died before the Assumption). Non-infallible teachings, while not requiring the assent of faith, cannot be disputed nor rejected publicly, simply because the benefit of the doubt must be given to those possessing the fullness of teaching authority.

I can explain, of course, what I meant. I refer to bishops and priest involved with the rite of exorcism, as well as the lay faithful that collaborate with them to some degree - including psychologists and psychiatrists. These people know very well the reality of the fallen angels lead by Satan. And there are plenty of writings on these topics for you to study, in fact it is a field called demonology. Also, just to mention a few recent, well-known books written by exorcists: "Interview with an exorcist" by Fr. Jose Antonio Fortea; "The Rite" by Matt Baglio (about Fr. Gary Thomas, on which a movie was loosely based); "Exorcism and the Church Militant" by Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuer; "Exorcist, A Spiritual Journey" by Fr. Jose Francisco Syquia; "Evidence of Satan In The Modern World" by Rev. Leon Cristiani.

If you want "proof" such as a video or live evidence etc., you are simply not in a position to have access to such material, and it should be more than enough for you to be taught that this reality exists and that there are people who directly confront it - besides, of course, the spiritual warfare that each devout faithful wages every day indirectly.


#18

[quote="tonyg, post:1, topic:315291"]
The Gospel today speaks about the temptation of Jesus in the desert. Are we really tempted by the devil to commit sin, or, do we just give in to our selfish desires and the pleasures of this world because we enjoy them? Is the devil really behind every mistake that we make, and sin we commit?

[/quote]

There have been good explanation before this - the world, the flesh and the Devil.

The flesh (our human nature) gravitates towards the pleasure that the world can give. What the world offers usually would bring us away from God. Sometimes that may lead to sin.

The Devil is the one who will tempt us into committing sin as he take advantage of the weakness of our flesh in the pleasure of the world. It is up to us to resist this temptation and be discipline in our flesh so that we will not succumb to it. Thus instead of being influenced by the the philosophy of the world we need to turn to God everytime and remember his words and precepts.


#19

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