TEXANS who carry guns are SAFER for society

Interesting article on the internet. Basically it says that civilians who legally carry guns are far more law abiding, far less likely to commit crimes than folks who don’t have state issued carry permits.

Just a short blurb from the article from the NATIONAL CENTER FOR POLICY ANALYSIS:
[INDENT]As a group, Texans with concealed-weapon permits are far less likely to commit crimes than other Texans, says Sterling Burnett of the National Center for Policy Analysis. “You don’t get a concealed carry permit because you want to commit a crime,” he points out.

Burnett reports that permit-holders in 1999 were 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent crimes than those without permits. They were 14 times less likely to be arrested for nonviolent offenses. And they were 28 percent less likely to be arrested for murder.[/INDENT]

Link: ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd101300a.html

now if we can just convince all our drug dealers and gang members to apply for permits they will stop committing crimes, I can’t wait.

Yup it probably would work because they would very likely show up on either their state or the federal background checks. For the states that allow citizen carry, those who choose to do so typically must undergo very extensive state and also FBI background checks, submit to finger printing (which are also checked against the crime data base) and must undergo various classes and testing. State requirements do vary slightly, but those requirements are typical.

So given the requirements it is very likely that if the gang members and drug dealers attempted to get their permits they would actually be turning themselves into the police for criminal prosecution during the process :thumbsup:

While it appears to say that Texans who obtain a concealed weapons permit are less likely to commit a crime, I didn’t see where it said Texans who carry guns are safer for society. The 10 year old research also failed to offer numbers of Texans who do not register for a concealed weapons permit.

melensdad;

Interesting article on the internet. Basically it says that civilians who legally carry guns are far more law abiding, far less likely to commit crimes than folks who don’t have state issued carry permits.

Just a short blurb from the article from the NATIONAL CENTER FOR POLICY ANALYSIS:
[INDENT][INDENT]As a group, Texans with concealed-weapon permits are far less likely to commit crimes than other Texans, says Sterling Burnett of the National Center for Policy Analysis. “You don’t get a concealed carry permit because you want to commit a crime,” he points out.

I’d like to know how they came up with this analysis?

How do they know that a person who doesn’t legally carry a gun, intends to commit crimes or not?

People who illegally carry guns are probably more likely to commit crimes than people who legally carry guns, but its a stretch to include law abiding citizens who don’t carry guns in that data.

Jim

Well if you don’t have a carry permit then by definition you are a criminal. The study looks at crime rates of people who lawfully carry guns versus the overall population. Criminals would be part of the overall population. It measures crime rates with guns just like any other crime rate.

Bear in mind they did not measure “intent” but rather they measured actual crimes. Your question is not quite logical, its like asking the Church to measure the intent to sin?

As for your comment about people who illegally carry guns being ‘more likely’ to commit crime is also a bit odd simply because they ARE committing a crime by carrying without a license in states that require it (like Texas).

As for your observation that people who don’t carry any gun at all should not be in the data, again that seems very odd. You are presuming that they are all honest too. That is a false assumption. Many crimes, and from what I can find, most crimes, seemingly are committed by people who do not use guns in the commission of their crime.

CCW permit holders are five times less likely than the general population to commit a crime. Several writers asked for backup. It’s easy to derive yourself if your state publishes CCW info by taking the numbers of permits revoked for cause, drawing a ratio to all permit holders, and comparing that to crime rates. The National Center for Policy Analysis has stats posted for Texas (showing a 14-times reduction for non-violent crimes too). ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd101300a.html.

This should not be surprising since permit holders are a self-selected set of people seeking to avoid crime, who undergo training and police checks, setting them in a class you would expect to have lower crime stats than people selected at random. If you want to pursue this check this out – the virulently anti-rights Violence Policy Center screamed about Texas permitees committing two violent crimes per month. Even assuming that’s true (VPCs numbers, from past observations, appear notoriously unreliable), with more than a quarter million permits issued, that’s less than 10 per 100,000 per year. Most cities have rape rates that alone are two to five times greater than that. All in all, a permit holder sitting next to you is the least of your worries.

I’m a Texan and I don’t have a permit and I don’t carry a weapon, and neither does anyone I know at least here at the retirement park. We don’t commit crimes (other than dancing with somebody else’s wife at a social or stealing sugar packets from Denny’s) so where do we fit in the statistics? I can see I really must learn to use smilies appropriately.

Simple, you fall into the non-licensed population (general population).

Also, the article doesn’t show that crimes dropped because of “Concealed Carry” Gun Law, but only that crime dropped in the same time period that the law came about.

Crime could’ve dropped for dozens of other reasons, which is actually more likely.

BTW, crime dropped in my state during that time frame too, and we have the strictest gun control laws in the country.

Jim

Nor does it profess to suggest that crimes did drop because of concealed carry. It simply states that those people who legally carry guns are more law abiding than those who do not.

While this, just like your prior observation, is off topic, I would be interested in seeing your evidence.

"JonRyan Paysse turned 21 a week ago and used his birthday money to buy a handgun. The junior at Texas State University-San Marcos had owned guns before, but this was the first handgun he bought with his own money.

His siblings said they couldn’t believe that Paysse, who had been hunting since he was young, was fatally shot by accident in the abdomen in his apartment near campus Wednesday. Police said the incident was an accident.

Paysse’s brothers said a friend more familiar with the .45-caliber handgun was showing Paysse how to use it. When Paysse went to grab the gun from his friend, it went off.

Family members say the shooting occurred in Paysse’s apartment at the University Heights San Marcos II complex on East River Ridge Parkway in San Marcos, where he lived with three others. Authorities said three other people were with Paysse at the time of the shooting but did not release further details of the incident.

“JonRyan knew about guns,” said Paysse’s stepbrother, Sean McDonald. "He knows how to use guns. He knew fire(arm) safety."

1/20/09

statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/01/11/0111paysse.html

Beau, that is a very sad story. But it has nothing to do with the topic of obtaining a legal concealed carry permit.

Do you have something to add that is ON TOPIC or will you simply continue, as you have in the past, to confuse the topic with intentionally deceptive diversion?

[INDENT]BTW, clearly the kid did not know firearms safety, he broke basic safety rules if the report you posted is accurate.[/INDENT]

yes but the headline says I am not as safe for society as someone who carries a gun, so should I get one, so my neighbors can be safer?

The headline is a paraphrase to attract attention. That is why headlines in newspapers, magazines tend to be somewhat sensational.

However your question has been asked and answered in other areas. There is some evidence that gun ownership does reduce overall crime. That is really not the topic of the thread. The topic is really about gun owners who have carry licenses being less of a risk to society than other members of society. The story indicates that gun owners with carry licenses are arrested less than other groups of people and are less likely to commit crimes than the general population.

I’m a Texas CHL holder since having a CHL the only time I have ever been pulled over by law enforcement was about two months ago. I turned off my truck, put the keys on top of the dashboard, with TDL and CHL in hand I put both hand on the steering wheel so the police officer could clearly see my hands.

She wanted to know why I was speeding thought a school zone. When I informed her that the lights are not flashing. Come to find out they were only working on one side of the street.

She asked me where the gun is I told here in my vest on the left side. She said thank you and I was on my way no ticket. She didn’t get on her computer to check me out because she knows that a CHL holder has to go though State and Federal background checks.

The only tickets I ever got in my lifetime were for speeding in Jimmy Carters 55 mph dumb law and for running a stop sign. The stop sign I was clearly wrong. The other one Jimmy Carter was wrong for putting this nation thought that micro managed stuff.

I believe that most CHL holders that do get in trouble is for DWI but don’t quote me on that.

If you need to see the stats on CHL holders and crime please go to the Texas DPS website they have it all posted.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/demographics.htm

Respectfully, the story Beau supplied seems to appropriately pertain to the topic of the thread according to the title of the thread, “Texans who carry guns are SAFER for society”. In my opinion, to accuse him of an “intentionally deceptive diversion”, is an attempt to maintain a biased opinion in favor of guns…:shrug:

I think having guns makes you safer, at least I certainly feel safer with them in my house. I am suprised that this accident happened though since he was familiar with guns and all. Oh well I guess thats why they call it an “accident”:shrug:

My hubby really wants to carry during the day when he drives around for work but I get to scared and usually dont let him:p Although he does carry when he has to go to Laredo, but thats understandable. We were alittle suprised that in Texas you can actually carry in military bases. My dh does construction work in Fort Hood (Hi StanMaxKolby LOL) sometimes and when he checks in the security guard always asks him if he has his gun on him…apparently you just have to register it before you enter.

But yes I am glad we have our conceil carry, even if we dont actually carry that much.

Respectfully I submit that the young man who shot himself with his own handgun was not carrying the gun, nor did the story indicate that he intended to carry the gun, nor did the story indicate that anyone in the story was licensed to carry a gun. This thread is about Texans who obtain licenses to carry a gun. . . at least that is what the subject matter of the original post is all about.

People who obtain licenses to carry a gun undergo far more scrutiny from the legal and criminal justice system than those who simply buy a gun to keep in their home. People who obtain licenses to carry a gun also may have to undergo specialized training and testing, depending on their state of residence and the story about the young man gave no indication that he had even applied for training. What it mistakenly said was that he knew gun safety, yet just the basic description of the story clearly shows that he broke several of the simple gun safety rules.

How does this story posted by Beau have anything to do with licensed carry holders? I sure can’t find any relationship between Beau’s story and the topic of the thread. Beau has a history on this forum of making posts in gun threads that have nothing to do with the topic, he seems to attempt to steer the topic to suit his purposes. That seems to be the case in this thread to.

I understand what you’re saying. What I’m trying to say is, there could be confusion simply by the title of the thread, which is “Texans who carry guns are SAFER for society”. I am presuming to speak for Beau though, and apologize, it’s just I can see how the youngman wasn’t safer, evidently, by owning and handling/carrying a gun, even if it was in his own house.

Well I agree he was not safer, and this thread never claimed he would be. But the thread is not about guns purchased and kept in the home. This thread is about those folks who have licenses to carry arms, who go through the extra state/federal background checks, who submit to fingerprinting, extra training and testing and what they mean to society.

Here is a story about a man with a Texas CCW permit saving his life:
[INDENT] MyFoxDFW of December 18, 2008
Dog Walker Kills Armed Teen Robber, Police Say

A man walking his dog in Terrell on Wednesday fatally shot an armed 17-year-old robber, police said.

The incident happened at about 10:20 p.m. in Ben Gill Park in the 100 block of Lions Club Lane where, police said, a group of teen robbers surrounded the man.

According to investigators, Markee Lamar Johnson pulled out a gun and the 47-year-old man, a licensed concealed handgun owner, fired shots.

The 17-year-old Terrell High School student was struck in the head and died at Parkland Hospital. His weapon was recovered at the scene and later determined to be stolen during a separate offense in Terrell, according to police.
. . .
“I think in this particular situation, it would be a clear example of someone exercising their rights to protect themselves under the law,” Capt. A.D. Sanson said.
. . .
The robbery victim, who did not want to be identified, was not injured.[/INDENT]
Another recent Texas CCW incident:
[INDENT]The Monitor of November 10, 2008
Attempted carjacker gets shot

The clerk warned Alejandro Salinas about the suspicious men who had been hanging out in front of the convenience store for the past hour.
. . .
Salinas walked out to his truck and hopped in.

But before he could close the door, 18-year-old Hector Severo Ramos was holding a .25-caliber pistol at Salinas’ neck, said Hidalgo County Sheriff Lupe Treviño.

“He says ‘Get out of the truck. I’m going to take it and I’m going to kill you,” Treviño said of Ramos.
. . .
Then he pushed Ramos’ pistol away, pulled out his own pistol and fired two 9 mm bullets into Ramos’ chest.[/INDENT]
These are recent stories from Texas of licensed concealed carry holders. I found many more in a simple search of the topic. I could have posted hundreds from all across the nation.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.