That Old Freemason Question...


#1

I have seen all the arguements against catholics becoming freemasons, the main one being that masons are by their own law deist (which is not true; each mason has his own personal faith). In short, I remain unconvinced of there being anything inherently sinful with someone being catholic and a mason.

PLease, can someone clarify?

Any chance of the Church allowing catholics to become masons?


#2

[quote="4givemeasinner, post:1, topic:292404"]
I have seen all the arguements against catholics becoming freemasons, the main one being that masons are by their own law deist (which is not true; each mason has his own personal faith). In short, I remain unconvinced of there being anything inherently sinful with someone being catholic and a mason.

PLease, can someone clarify?

Any chance of the Church allowing catholics to become masons?

[/quote]

No. With its inherent Indifferentism Freemasonry cannot be reconciled with Catholicism. Whether one is convinced or not by the Church's teaching, choosing to join despite having the knowledge of what the Church teaches re Freemasonry would be very much a sin.


#3

[quote="4givemeasinner, post:1, topic:292404"]
I have seen all the arguements against catholics becoming freemasons, the main one being that masons are by their own law deist (which is not true; each mason has his own personal faith). In short, I remain unconvinced of there being anything inherently sinful with someone being catholic and a mason.

PLease, can someone clarify?

Any chance of the Church allowing catholics to become masons?

[/quote]

Why would someone wish to become a Freemason when the Knights of Columbus and other Catholic groups are out there?


#4

[quote="Trebor135, post:3, topic:292404"]
Why would someone wish to become a Freemason when the Knights of Columbus and other Catholic groups are out there?

[/quote]

Ah, because the KC et al have no hidden conspiracies or lost symbols all over Washington..........:):)

ICXC NIKA


#5

A partial quote from one of the staff answers available at Catholic.com:

The Church has imposed the penalty of excommunication on Catholics who become Freemasons. The penalty of excommunication for joining the Masonic Lodge was explicit in the 1917 code of canon law (canon 2335), and it is implicit in the 1983 code (canon 1374).

Because the revised code of canon law is not explicit on this point, some drew the mistaken conclusion that the Church's prohibition of Freemasonry had been dropped. As a result of this confusion, shortly before the 1983 code was promulgated, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a statement indicating that the penalty was still in force. This statement was dated November 26, 1983 and may be found in Origins 13/27 (Nov. 15, 1983), 450.

The same document suggests Knights of Columbus as a fraternal alternative. Also, my sponsor in RCIA was and is active in Cursillo, which may have members in your parish.


#6

[quote="4givemeasinner, post:1, topic:292404"]
I have seen all the arguements against catholics becoming freemasons, the main one being that masons are by their own law deist (which is not true; each mason has his own personal faith). In short, I remain unconvinced of there being anything inherently sinful with someone being catholic and a mason.

PLease, can someone clarify?

Any chance of the Church allowing catholics to become masons?

[/quote]

Holy Mother Church saying "No." should be enough. The Masons divide a flock and put the focus of the faithful to something other than Christ and His Bride, the Church. They were founded in protestantism and in the past have gone to great lengths to halt the propagation of the Faith. Freemasonry are great adversaries of the Church, so be weary of them. They are remarked as "socialists and communists". These masons make promises that lack a foundation in Christ

Allow me to quote Humanum Genus (April 20 1884), "Now, the fundamental doctrine of the naturalists, which they sufficiently make known by their very name, is that human nature and human reason ought in all things to be mistress and guide. Laying this down, they care little for duties to God, or pervert them by erroneous and vague opinions. For they deny that anything has been taught by God; they allow no dogma of religion or truth which cannot be understood by the human intelligence, nor any teacher who ought to be believed by reason of his authority."


#7

[quote="GEddie, post:4, topic:292404"]
Ah, because the KC et al have no hidden conspiracies or lost symbols all over Washington..........:):)

ICXC NIKA

[/quote]

Not according to Jack Chick...


#8

[quote="4givemeasinner, post:1, topic:292404"]
I have seen all the arguements against catholics becoming freemasons, the main one being that masons are by their own law deist (which is not true; each mason has his own personal faith). In short, I remain unconvinced of there being anything inherently sinful with someone being catholic and a mason.

PLease, can someone clarify?

Any chance of the Church allowing catholics to become masons?

[/quote]

Absolutely NOT and this was made clear by Pope Benedict while still Cardinal Ratzinger and Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

  • Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P. Titular Archbishop of Lorium Secretary

#9

We can always hope and pray that both sides may seek reconciliation with the issues that divide them.

If Galileo was excommunicated for 350 years for the sheer audacity in thinking that the earth revolved around the sun, then there is always hope that the Holy Roman See can come to understanding that Freemasonry is no threat to anyone. Even the Holy Father acknowledged that Galileo was wrongfully persecuted and I feel that somehow, someday, the same will be said for Catholic Freemasons.:)

Cardinal DeNardo in the archdiocese of Houston already allows Catholic Freemasons to receive the sacraments but they cannot be lay ministers within the Church. A very open minded and guarded approach.


#10

[quote="4givemeasinner, post:1, topic:292404"]
I have seen all the arguements against catholics becoming freemasons, the main one being that masons are by their own law deist (which is not true; each mason has his own personal faith).

[/quote]

The bolded statement in your comment shows you are not well informed on the subject. I suggest reading Christianity and American Freemasonry by William J. Whalen. It is a fair and balanced discussion on the topic, and does not rely on conspiracy theories or false accusations against masons. Once you have read this book, you will be able to approach this topic from an informed position.

*note: I notice these topics have been popping up frequently. Usually, there seems to be quite a few newbie posters supporting masonry on these topics without participating in other topics. Does anyone know if there is some sort of Masonic internet recruitment /apologetics drive going on? (PM to answer so as not to disrupt this topic, thanks. Replies in this topic will not be answered.)


#11

Freemasons actually worship Lucifer. They don't tell you that untill you are upper level and committed already. You will be required to ask for more light even though they will not tell you why. Educate yourself from someone who knows.

youtube.com/watch?v=Eknia0Ql3iA

Bill is a former 90th degree mason, satanic priest and a whole bunch of other titles from evil cults. It's worth the watch.

Dicko..


#12

[quote="Aussieman88, post:11, topic:292404"]
Freemasons actually worship Lucifer. They don't tell you that untill you are upper level and committed already. You will be required to ask for more light even though they will not tell you why. Educate yourself from someone who knows.

youtube.com/watch?v=Eknia0Ql3iA

Bill is a former 90th degree mason, satanic priest and a whole bunch of other titles from evil cults. It's worth the watch.

Dicko..

[/quote]

So instead of linking to factual information, you link to misinformation. :whacky:

An earlier film with this guy:
youtube.com/watch?v=KNEkkb3Iv9g

How does interjecting misinformation lead people to the truth? Or is this the same old game of muddying the waters to veil the truth? What proof is there that this guy is legitimate? Remember, Satan is the father of lies!!!


#13

"REMEMBER SATAN IS THE FATHER OF LIES"

too true my friend, too true. If you want proof then you obviously didn't watch the full video. He provides it.

Dicko..


#14

[quote="Sonic, post:12, topic:292404"]

How does interjecting misinformation lead people to the truth? Or is this the same old game of muddying the waters to veil the truth? What proof is there that this guy is legitimate? Remember, Satan is the father of lies!!!

[/quote]

Maybe it's for minds that haven't grown to accept that just because two people see reality in different ways doesn't automatically mean one of them has to be wrong. And if one of those two people is one of us, then of course we're not going to be the ones that are wrong.

Alan


#15

Masonry has 90 degrees???


#16

[quote="ess1113a, post:9, topic:292404"]
We can always hope and pray that both sides may seek reconciliation with the issues that divide them.

[/quote]

I feel sincerely sorry for you. You have no idea of what Freemasonry is, though you probably think you do.

To hope in such reconciliation is to hope that Satan may seek reconciliation with God.

But that will never happen. Satan hates God, and God cannot forgive him.

There is only one thing that those who love Christ can do: choose the light over the darkness.

The official position of the Church, to which the faithful must obey, is that of Canon Law confirmed by His Holiness the Pope: membership is forbidden, and Christian freemasons are excommunicated. We owe greater obedience to the Pope than to the bishops that collaborate with him.

Catholics must abandon Freemasonry as fast as they can, and take the steps to have the ipso facto excommunication removed. To receive the Blessed Sacrament is to commit another grave sin in disobeying the Church, and also a sacrilege in receiving the Most Holy Body of Christ without proper disposition.


"Through some fissure the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God."
His Holiness Pope Paul VI, Servant of God
Homily, June 29 1972

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJaA/Sa_esBW-YcI/AAAAAAAAMbo/jJ6Xqowyg2Y/s400/Pope+Paul+VI.jpg


#17

[quote="Aussieman88, post:13, topic:292404"]
"REMEMBER SATAN IS THE FATHER OF LIES"

too true my friend, too true. If you want proof then you obviously didn't watch the full video. He provides it.

Dicko..

[/quote]

Sorry, but he doesn't convince me. If he was in fact a person who left the Catholic Church, participated in blasphemies and other sinful activities, sold his soul to the devil, and was possessed by demons; then why did he not RETURN to the the Catholic Church. Instead, he remains in a ministry outside the church claiming to be "born again".

In my studies on spiritual warfare, every Catholic Exorcist will tell you that witches and satanists acknowledge the Holy Eucharist in the Catholic and Orthodox Church as valid. That is why they seek to steal it for their rituals. They do not go to other churches. Hence, your champion (being who he was) would have returned to the one true church... the Catholic church... because he would have known that was his only way to liberation from evil.

That is why I don't buy it. I don't care how many certificates and photos he flashes on a screen.


#18

[quote="Sonic, post:12, topic:292404"]
What proof is there that this guy is legitimate?

[/quote]

I know it's hard to believe, but Bill may be legit. He and I traveled some of the same paths. We are both from the Chicago area. We studied Druidism at the same commune in Hattieville Arkansas. We both participated in the Gnostic Church in the Chicago area. I attended Masonic ceremonies, but was never initiated. We both studied witchcraft.

Bill went further along these paths than I did. I can verify much of what he says. He reveals some things that I know are true. He talks about other things that I suspected were true. When he makes some of the more incredible statements, I have to think that he his is telling the truth.

For instance, the high priest and the grand master of the Druids were also Masons. The Bishop of the Gnostic Church was a Mason. Many of the witches admitted involvement or a family history in Masonry.


#19

[quote="MtnDwellar, post:18, topic:292404"]
I know it's hard to believe, but Bill may be legit. He and I traveled some of the same paths. We are both from the Chicago area. We studied Druidism at the same commune in Hattieville Arkansas. We both participated in the Gnostic Church in the Chicago area. I attended Masonic ceremonies, but was never initiated. We both studied witchcraft.

Bill went further along these paths than I did. I can verify much of what he says. He reveals some things that I know are true. He talks about other things that I suspected were true. When he makes some of the more incredible statements, I have to think that he his is telling the truth.

For instance, the high priest and the grand master of the Druids were also Masons. The Bishop of the Gnostic Church was a Mason. Many of the witches admitted involvement or a family history in Masonry.

[/quote]

If that's true, then maybe he never left and has simply remade himself as a Christian to continue his work.

A book being sold from his own website (I'm sure CAF apologists would have a field day with this guy):

Learn how a Babylonian goddess became the Virgin Mary. The Virgin Mary, worshiped the whole world over, is actually an ancient pagan goddess.

Over the last century, researchers of all kinds have uncovered many clues to this mystery...but few have put those pieces together...until now.

Combining research from anthropology, archaeology, linguistics, art history, mythology and even occultic sources, you will see, in plain language, how Satan's ancient religion of Babylon still lives today as modern Roman Catholicism – the most powerful religious and secular force on the planet.

An ancient pagan goddess sits in the Vatican, steadily bringing all religions under her control. Are you under her spell? Are your family or loved ones? What can you do about it?

The answers are in this book.

source: withoneaccord.org/Babylon-Religion--by-David-W-Daniels_p_95.html

More of Bill Schnoebelen's wonderful Anti-Catholic ministry can be seen here:

withoneaccord.org/Other-Religions_c_6.html


#20

[quote="4givemeasinner, post:1, topic:292404"]
I have seen all the arguements against catholics becoming freemasons, the main one being that masons are by their own law deist (which is not true; each mason has his own personal faith). In short, I remain unconvinced of there being anything inherently sinful with someone being catholic and a mason.

PLease, can someone clarify?

Any chance of the Church allowing catholics to become masons?

[/quote]

The members of Masons perform a religious rite.
In this religious ceremony they place a book on their altar. This book must be a holy book considered sacred by any religion, but usually one which is accepted where the
particular lodge is located. It could be the bible, kuran, or some other book. This then may necessitate a christian to use and read some book that is not the Bible during one of their services.

Members are required to take oaths that aren't necessary.
Such as not having sex with another Master Mason's wife, mother, sister or daughter
and swearing on God. The seventh commandment already says "Do not commit adultery", and applies to all women. This is taken under symbolic penalties like having the throat cut across and the tongue torn out by its roots.

The order also states that they offer resurrection of the dead, with no reference to Jesus. The requirement to be raised to eternal life is be a good Mason, not a good christian.
The resurrection of Jesus on Easter is central to the christian belief of being one with Jesus.

Freemasonry teaches a universal diety, which means you are free to believe in any god that you wish. In their lodge, God to them may be Jehovah, Allah, Great Chief, and even possibly Lucifer. This depends on what is acceptable to those in a local region where the lodge is located.

They pray to the "Great architect of the Universe" in their lodges. That is what the "G" in their symbol stands for. To them,what god you chose to believe in is of no consequence. This is in direct contrast to what Christ taught, that the only way to the Father is through Him.
"Universalism" is incompatible with the Catholic Church.


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