The Alleged Sons of God

The Alleged Sons of God =

According to an ancient Roman policy, any able-bodied man from theconquered lands, who joined the Roman Army, would obtain authomatic citizenship. And if he was lucky enough to reach retirement age, he could choose where he would like to spend the rest of his life, and he would be granted a piece of land or farm as severance pay for his services to the Empire. Rome excluded.

When the Roman Legions arrived in the Middle East and conquered Sidon, a man called Pantera applied to join the Army and was accepted. Then, he was conscripted into the Roman Legion which got stationed in Syria. When he reached retirement age, he chose to return to Sidon and got his farm there to live for the rest of his life.

According to Josephus, in the year 4 BCE, there was a local revolt in Israel against Herod, which was threatening to depose him. Herod appealed to Rome for help and Caesar gave orders to the Legion stationed in Syria to cross over into Israel and put down the revolt.

Thousands of Roman soldiers came over and the task was quite easy. They crucified a few thousand Jews, and decided to stay for some time to make sure the discontent were subdued. In the meantime, the Roman soldiers would rape young Jewish ladies almost daily.

As it was to expect, many children were born as a result of those rapes. Since the unfortunate mothers were not to blame for promiscuity, the religious authorities forbade to ostracize them or to consider their children as mamzerim or ba$tards. But they grew up with the epithet of “sons of God.” (Lecture on the “Historical Jesus” at Stanphord University)

Since Jesus was born just about that time, I am of the opinion that it is much more prudent and less embarrassing to acknowledge that he was a biological son of Joseph’s than to run the risk that Jesus might have been one of those “sons of God.”

Now, regarding Mark 7:24, I have here with me two different Bible translations. One is the Catholic New American version of the Bible wherefrom I read that when Jesus went to Sidon, he would retire into a certain house and wanted no one to recognize him in there. The other translation is the King James version, wherefrom I read that when Jesus went to Sidon, he would enter into a certain house and would have on man know it.

Although I am not assuming anything, everyone of us has all the right in the world to speculate about such a shouting evidence, and to think that there was something fishy going on for Jesus to insist on secrecy about his being in Sidon or in that certain house. At that time Joseph had been long dead. Could it be that jesus knew about his real origins
and was interacting with his real father? Everything is possible, but if you ask me, I am still in favour that he was rather a biological son of Joseph’s. At least, Joseph’s and Mary’s names won’t be smeared by Agnostics, who are only too ready to acknowledge.l

“The Myth of the Pax Romana” by Prof. Erick Hinnerman, a German Scholar of the 19th Century.

Ben:

How do you know about Pantera?

He’s in the Talmud.

Speculate all you want, Ben, and see what your end will be. We’ll be singing the Song of Moses.

Still waiting after all of these years?

I pray that you and all of your Jewish brothers and sisters will soon embrace the fact that The Christ has come. He is your salvation, just as he is my salvation. Why do you continue to resist and dispute the fulfillment of God’s promise to you, His chosen people?

I will continue to pray for you and all of the Jewish people. May God Bless you and guide you.

In Christ I pray.

NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!

1 Like

Genesis

6:1 Man began to increase on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them.

6:2 The sons of God saw that the daughters of man were good, and they took themselves wives from whomever they chose.

6:3 God said, ‘My spirit will not continue to judge man forever, since he is nothing but flesh. His days shall be 120 years.’

6:4 The titans were on the earth in those days and also later. The sons of God had come to the daughters of man and had fathered them. [The titans] were the mightiest ones who ever existed, men of renown.

:eek:

From Wikipedia:

The alleged connection to Jesus derives from the interpretation of a **single statement **by Celsus, an anti-Christian Greek philosopher quoted by Origen in Contra Celsum. According to Origen, Celsus wrote:
when she (Mary) was pregnant she was turned out of doors by the carpenter to whom she had been betrothed, as having been guilty of adultery, and that she bore a child to a certain soldier named Panthera. A figure known as Yeshu ben Pandera is mentioned in the Tosefta, a secondary collection of Jewish oral law. Yeshu (Joshua) is Hebrew for Jesus. However there were many persons with the name of Yeshu.[2]
The record in the Toledot Yeshu: Mary, who had been betrothed to a man named John, was seduced by her neighbor, Joseph ben Pantera. When she discovered she was pregnant, John left her and went to Babylon. When Jesus was born, she tried to pretend he was the son of John and even attempted to give him a Jewish religious education. Jesus, however, began to reveal the evil that would later mark Him and was extremely rude to his rabbi teacher. The rabbi eventually uncovered the truth about Jesus’ father, but declared that Mary was not worthy of death because she committed the act unwillingly. Jesus, about thirty years old and now declared to be a bastard, fled to Jerusalem.

The link between Celsus’s Panthera and Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera was first suggested in Marcello Craveri’s 1966 book La vita di Gesù.[3] The connection depends on the assumption that Celsus’ information about Jesus’ illegitimacy was correct, and so a soldier with this name, living at the right period, might be the father. Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera’s career would place him in Judea (present day Palestine) as a young man around the time of Jesus’ conception.[4]
Scholars Marcus J. Borg and John Dominic Crossan note that Celsus was antagonistic towards Christianity and that the suggestion of Roman parentage might derive from the memory of Roman military operations suppressing a revolt at Sepphoris near Nazareth around the time of Jesus’ birth. The “common legionary name” Panthera could have arisen from a satirical connection between “Panther” and the word “Parthenos” meaning virgin.

Do any ancient writings say that Pantera was a retired Roman soldier (rather than a young man) who acquired a farm in Sidon?

Why are you telling us all this?

1 Like

That must have been a different Yeshu. Our Yeshu was known as the son of the carpenter by his neighbors in Nazareth. Surely they would have known if his mother had been raped (you know how neighbors talk). On his mothers side our Yeshu was related to the high priest Zacchariah whose wife was Elizabeth. Their son was the John who preached and baptized people in the Jordan. John was killed by Herod because he had spoken out criticizing Herod as immoral since his marriage to Herodias was forbidden by Jewish law.

1 Like

Read all the threads he’s started. You’ll get the gist.

1 Like

I quoted my sources in the thread. Whatelse do you need?

You guys are the ones to blame for this kind of speculations. If you had not invented the Hellenistic idea of virgin birth, nothing of the above would need to be speculated. I don’t think you will be singing the Song of Moses, after all.

So that you will decide to stop distorting the image of Judaism before the world by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it.

:amen:

1 Like

**Way to go Claire! I finally agree with someone in this forum. It is interesting how you relate Mary to the High Priest Zecchariah. As a matter of fact, Luke relates her to that family in Luke 1:5,36. I think this is a very strong statement to give us evidence that Mary was from the Tribe of Levi, because Elizabeth was of the family of Aaron the Levite.

Listen Claire, IMHO, I don’t want to believe that Jesus was the result of a Roman rape but we cannot change what has been written about the issue. I surrely hope that that Jesus was a different Jesus or nothing is true, because it’s too sad and embarrassing.**

Yes, and the book “The Myth of the Pax Romana,” says also that eventually, Pantera had to move to Germany, and his grave was found with an eulogy on behalf of Caesar to the Sidonian soldier Pantera. I have been told that he is mentioned also in the Talmud, but personally, I haven’t read it there.

****Listen fella, do you happen to know the name of the Faith of Jesus? If not, let me remind you that it was Judaism. If he came back alive, would you try to make him change his Faith for yours? Can you see how ridiculous this sounds? Instead of praying so that I should leave the Faith of Jesus, why not yourself come to join us, myself and Jesus? ****

You know, Ben, blaspheming our Blessed Mother is not against the rules here, apparently, but proselytizing Catholics is banned. You have been reported.

**Thank you. But listen, did you forget to let the Moderator know that you have been trying to proselytize me into changing my Faith, which was the Faith of Jesus for your Faith, which was the Faith of Paul? You have NOT been reported. Do you know why? Because I am in a much higher intellectual level than yours. **

It is appropriate to discuss the details of another person’s faith, and philisophical beliefs, it is NOT appropriate to personally attack a person because of their beliefs. If you are going to debate beliefs, please use good intellectual debate tactics.

God bless-

Rachel

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.