The American Election

So as to not derail another thread, I am starting this one. I am Canadian so my country is very much affected by whatever goes on in the states. Our main political concern is the renegotiation of free trade and the impact that will have on our economy.

However, as a Catholic who thinks abortion is wrong, I am amazed that this would be sufficient reason to vote for Trump. He appears to be supporting racism, which IMO is just as sinful. So I really DON"T understand how the simply fact he believes abortion is wrong is justification in letting him get away with his other sins (such as using loopholes to not pay taxes which is theft)

Also, as a woman, I am floored that any women would vote for a man who jokes about sexually assaulting women. That is very concerning to me. How does saving a baby justify assaulting a woman :confused:

But from where I am sitting, the saddest part of the whole election was the only thing I ever saw was two people insult each other like immature kids. I can’t remember seeing either one of them on TV explaining their campaign on things like economic policies and providing well researched arguments on how that would benefit the future of America.

It’s like I told everyone at work. I didn’t bother watching the election because if I wanted that kind of drama I would watch the bachelor

NOTE: I don’t watch Canadian elections either :smiley:

In my opinion, Catholics voted for Trump because they couldn’t vote for Clinton, due to her assurance that she would expand abortion, and we’ve all been brainwashed into thinking that we could never elect a third party candidate.

:thumbsup:

I agree with you, Allegra.

I think that your post is very well said.

I had also been posting about what the US Bishops were saying about us voting with our conscience.

They had posted an article with guidelines for us in it.

However, I think that if people didn’t take a look at what the Bishops were saying, they might have been misunderstanding what that was about.

It wasn’t even about voting third party like I think that some people seemed to think. It was about using our consciences when making a decision.

If the libertarian party had run a more conservative candidate, I would have considered voting for him or her. If Evan McMullin had made the ballot in every state, then maybe I would have voted for him. I came very close to it. But I’m in a swing state and decided to vote for the viable candidate who is most likely to do something about illegal immigration and at least not make the situation worse re: abortion and religious liberty.

Edit: Also Hillary just turns my stomach.

I agree too.

One mistake, though, is that I think a lot of people in the media (and we’ve seen it on CAF the past couple of days, too) assume that people voted for Trump because of the foolish or stupid things he’s said. Some people find his “candor” (to put it one way) refreshing, but really, people voted for him because he’s anti-establishment, and Hillary was very “establishment.” An establishment that has failed them economically, and treats them as dumb people who need to get with the program already and abandon their way of life.

On CAF there was a lot of talk about abortion, but really, I don’t think that was a key issue for most Trump voters, and I don’t think it will be a big part of his presidency. Maybe a couple Supreme Court nominees, but I’m not holding my breath.

I wonder if Trump would have won if Bernie Sanders had been the Democratic candidate.

I wonder about that too, but I do think abortion may have been a key factor. I know a lot of people who really loved Hillary’s policies about helping the poor, etc, and they all made excuses for her regarding her stance on abortion. A lot of them were straight up repulsed when she reiterated her stance during the last debate and said, yes, fully viable babies should be ripped apart for society’s convenience. Sanders, is prochoice, but he doesn’t make that such a big part of his campaign and would probably leave things as they are. If asked, hed probably talk about all his policies and how they would help women who want to keep their babies and people would twist that around to mean that he’s against abortion but just goes about ending it a different way.

I’m sure people are simply wanting to bring conservatism back.
We’ve tried to the other way, and seen how miserably it has served us, especially our children. :coffeeread:

No one wants to acknowledge the crimes the Clintons have committed.
But it’s public record.
People just couldn’t stomach her… not in the name of having a female President.

How about voting for the best candidate and quit with the gimmicks already. :rolleyes:

And in this race, he was the only choice.
5 non-negotiables for Catholics. Turns out they were non-negotiables for many conservatives across the country.

I personally don’t believe he’s the evil person the media would like us to believe he is.
I’ll give him a chance. The man isn’t even in office yet. And he sure didn’t get us where we are in this country. Career politicians did.

I’ll pray for a real change.

hillary’s strident pro abortion stance is the most important reason i voted for donald trump

i listened very carefully to the guidance my bishop gave me through “veiled” homilies

due to tax reasons, i get it

Is it really brainwashing to believe that a third party candidate, at the present time, is simply unelectable?

I’m sorry, but until I see one shred of solid evidence that a third party can remotely come close to even 30,000,000 popular votes, I will continue to find that particular option to be naive and untenable in reality.

As for the OP: killing innocent babies and making crude jokes are not equal evils. Wanting to enforce immigration laws is not racism. In fact, have a listen to Jesse Romero talking about the spiritual dangers of illegal immigration, of the real damage in Mexican lives that’s being caused: catholic.com/radio/shows/the-spiritual-implications-of-illegal-immigration-6984.

And by the way, when those leftists who were pretending to be shocked at Trump’s sexual language make one political move against the pornography industry, then they can be taken seriously and not seen as being hypocrites who use poll-tested tested buzzwords to engage in real brainwashing.

Here is youtube footage of a Trump rally the night before the election, I would very much encourage you to watch it and share it.

These are all those hateful, bigoted, racist, sexist, irredeemable, deplorables (Whatever other name you can think of) everyone’s been talking about.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

That’s true.

As to saving a baby, it’s more than one. Since Roe vs. Wade, we have had at least 59 million in the US, alone. See…numberofabortions.com/ We’re talking millions, and who knows how many are aborted that aren’t listed, through abortifacient contraception, for example.

I’m not thrilled about Trump’s defects, and I wish we would have had another alternative besides Hillary, but we didn’t have anyone else competitive.

My POV - there is a difference between what I believe a candidate will do in his/her elected position and how that candidate thinks/acts personally

Hence - I voted based on the hope that Trump would select conservative judges that will balance out the number of liberal judges currently serving in our courts. I have lived in fear of having several of my basic constitutional rights severely restricted if the current trend were left unchecked. I did not vote for him based on whatever vulgarity came out of his mouth.

I voted against Clinton because her position was not just keep abortion / same-sex marriage legal - but that no matter what someone’s religious views about such things were, they needed to accept (or even support) them - and that she was willing to push through laws to enforce that. To my knowledge she never indicated any respect for someone’s right to conscientiously object - and thus would appoint judges, support laws that would restrict or remove those and other rights.

Also, having to live through the Bill Clinton scandal :::shudder::: I see no difference between electing a woman who stayed with a man like him (and thus putting him back in the White House) versus voting for a man who acts pretty much the same (just got caught on tape saying it cruder).

And, finally, there is this - much of America is completely tired of being told who we are to vote for, who the candidate will be, and what the outcome will be. For years before the election we were told who the “leading” candidate(s) would be and then more recently were told by the polls who “would” win. Needless to say Trump upended those “certainties” for the Republicans and Sanders nearly did so for the Democrats.

Makes me shake my head as there’s already talk of how Michele Obama can/will be the nominee in 4 years sigh

Look, I don’t know if Mr T is the “evil man the media” made him out to be, or if he’s the repentant sinner some would like to believe.

Doesn’t matter now.

He is the duly elected president elect of the USA. I am a citizen of the USA, and whether I voted for him or not (I didn’t) no longer matters. He’s got the job now. :shrug:

Time for a peaceful transfer of power, and four years of whatever happens next.

As Stephen Colbert said on Wednesday night –
“You don’t get to flee to another country when things get rough here. Being an American citizen is like family. You’re in it whether you like it or not.”

So to all of us who did not vote for the man, it’s time to cowboy up and move forward.

More likely than not, we’ll all be voting for POTUS in another four years, and life goes on…

:signofcross:

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

The number one reason for me was the Supreme Court appointment. If Clinton had won she would have named 2 if not 3 or 4 Supreme Court justices as Ginsberg would have almost assuredly stepped down and Breyer and/or Kennedy might have also. With Kagan and Sotomayor already having 20 to 30 years left, the assurance that liberal judicial activism would rule the Court 6 to 3 was simply too much. I decided to take a chance with a moderate like President-elect Trump over an assured end of religious liberties.

Personally I doubt he will be able to accomplish a 10th of what people want him too, but as long as we don’t lose Justice Scalia’s seat to a judicial activists then I will count that as a win. If we can pick up Ginsberg’s or any of the other Justice’s seats that are 78+ then I’ll count it a double win.

With regard to things he says? I find it much more disgusting for someone to tell my daughters that killing their babies is healthcare or that men should feel free to use the ladies room than I do his reprehensible comments about women. To me things the Clinton and Trump said are disgusting in different ways.

1:52:40

“Her campaign, in WikiLeaks, has spoken horribly about Catholics, and Evangelicals, and so many others, they got it all down folks, WikiLeaks,… We’re going to stand up for the Catholics, and we’re going to stand up for the Evangelicals,”

  • President elect Donald J Trump.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

I’ve voted for third-party candidates before. But this was not the time for that. If there had been a better, viable third-party candidate, I would have voted for him. But that would have taken a serious, critical mass movement for a third-party candidate that was absent in this election.

Elections are contests with serious political and spiritual ramifications and you do not choose an obvious loser of said contest when there is a viable candidate who can win against one who will do an even greater evil. It is not intrinsically evil to choose a flawed, less-than-saintly candidate. And I have a moral responsibility for the foreseeable consequences of my actions. Choosing not to vote for a viable candidate in the face of great evil is just plain irresponsible.

Our society and culture is rapidly degenerating. While the candidate I chose is a product of that culture and far from the decent, spiritual man I wish I cold have voted for (I would have loved to have seen Ben Carson, Ron Paul or even Ted Cruz on the ballot instead), it is the Democratic party, especially under the current 8-year administration, which has most vehemently and forcefully abused state power to push their anti-God, anti-liberty, un-Constitutional, pro-homosexuality, pro-contraceptive, pro-abortion, socialistic agenda down everybody’s throats, thus hastening the decline of our society, the murder of unborn human beings and the loss of souls.

If Hillary had won, this trend would likely have accelerated and a persecution of the Church and other “deplorables” who disagree with these ideologies would not have been far off. Already, the government has forced a Catholic orphanage to choose between allowing same-sex adoptions or closing down. The threat of “hate speech” laws is the criminalization of free speech for those of us who believe in timeless Catholic principles instead of the spirit of the age. Hillary has been clear that she thinks religious beliefs have to be changed. By what? State power? What happened to the “separation of Church and State”?

Nevermind Obamacare- an unconstitutional piece of legislation that gives us socialized medicine which supports and pushes the evils of contraception and abortion. Nevermind that it was going to fail and probably become an even worse “single payer” system which Hillary prefers. Also consider the long-term damage that several new life-long activist, liberal Supreme Court judges would have done to our nation and world.

No, no- this is much bigger than a man’s foul words and personality problems. Offensiveness and even racism (which I don’t believe he really subscribes to and apparently a lot of blacks and Hispanic voters agree with me) are far more tolerable than the evil that Hillary would have pushed.

No, Trump won’t start a new world war nor will he dismiss congress nor any of the other ridiculous, irresponsible, alarmist things our compromised media would have us believe- there are still enough checks and balances to prevent such things and Trump is not insane, despite his personality problems.

No, we have been spared for four more years without major persecutions. We’ve better make it count and evangelize our sick culture back to health before it collapses on us before our very eyes.

Excellent post.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.