The antichrist


#1

:confused: I accompanied my partner to a seminar at his church (SDA) in which the speaker (Douglas Batchelor) stated that, according to bible prophecies and numerous other sources which he quoted, the Roman Catholic church is considered by many to be the “Antichrist”. Can someone make some sense of this to me and also, just who exactly does this Pastor Batchelor thinks he is?
Thanks for being so kind !
~ Kathy ~


#2

First let me say I am sorry you had to be subjected to that mess:mad: There are some sites like that on the web that make themselves look like a Catholic site and when you enter:eek: trash,just pure trash.Cuttingedge ministries is one of them.All they have done is pulled Bible verses and twisted their meaning until they can make false accusations.Some other person here may be able to elaborate more on the specific charges or rather false charges.God Bless


#3

Hi,

I was at a local Adventist Church tonight as well… First of all, I want to commend Doug Batchelor (who let me say is one of the finest, and most sincere Christian men I have ever known) for the spirit of love in which he presented this claim that Mother Church is somehow the Antichrist. At the same time, sincerity most certainly does not mean he is right, and the POOR GUY has it terribly wrong… I once believed every word of this, and was an avid supporter of Adventist ministries such as the one Doug Batcheolor inherited. Even though I love him still, I would ask you to pray for him… He will make a GREAT Catholic someday, nothing is impossible with Christ. Everyone reading this post should pray for his conversion (in particular, and that of all Adventists) DAILY.

To begin with, I want to direct you to a post in which I answered all the claims he made tonight: forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=39697 . I hope it is very helpful… I certainly made it as thorough as I could. This should be a GREAT starting point for your discussions with your Adventist friend. Engage them in a religious discussion over this very point, and if you need more help, please feel free to correspond with me (or other former Adventists) through this forum or by e-mail (listed in my member account). Adventists are sincere… their beliefs concerning the Catholic Church are unfortunate because they are sooooooooo misinformed… Adventists are sincere, feel NO antagonism towards your friend, and love her, be kinder to her even more now… she simply has been blinded by a twisting of facts that Adventists inherited from the time of the Reformation. Doug Batchelor does not know that what he is saying is a gross misrepresentation… He needs to knwo the truth, and so does your friend. Many will see the light once it is presented in its truth. Shine that light, and I’ll help you in any way I can.

Yours in the service of the Holy Church,
Hugo.


#4

Katie.
If you go to any SDA service I can assure you that that is what you are gonna hear. They have a book out that circulates under two different titles, The Great Controversy" and “America in Prophecy”, they allege some of the wildest, most historically inaccurate stuff you can imagine. You can find it here:egwtext.whiteestate.org/gc/gc.html but I suggest that unless ya wanna make yourself sick that ya not bother 'cos it’s someof the most sickening stuff I’ve ever read. If you found yourself sitting there saying “But that’s not true…that’s not what we believe” then you’ll do the very same thing in reading more than a page or so of this book. The third chapter really starts in hard about Constantine and just spirals outta control from there.

I personally wasted about 3 days wading through it and putting notes in the margins where there were mistatements and got to about the 5th chapter before I just got so disgusted that I tossed it in the garbage where it belongs.

I accompanied my partner to a seminar at his church (SDA)

My own thought is that you might just ask your partner if they were just trying to offend you and would they be willing to attend Mass with you and to read real Catholic material (like the CCC for instance!).

See the tracts at this link for more and better answers that you might even print out and take to your partner:
catholic.com/library/anti_catholicism.asp

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any more help.
Pax vobiscum,


#5

I was recently arguing this with someone. He was claiming that it is a fact that the Roman Catholic Church is the Antichrist. I was so irritated, and told him it was a matter of opinion. I don’t know why they target you guys so much.

God Bless,
Elizabeth


#6

i had a similar experience in high school. one of my protestant classmates had this sort of comics/graphic novel that, i don’t know if it was distributed by their church or something, but it depicted plainly that the Catholic Church was the whore of babylon, and that the Eucharist was some “new” form of worship of the eye of ra. and of course it showed how the worship of ishtar “developed” into the “worship” of Mary.

you can imagine i wasn’t too pleased about it. but i think i managed to keep my cool, and asked my classmate where they got these things and what proof they had that any of this was true.

she didn’t answer. she didn’t even say, “the Bible.” i mean she just left me hanging. is that a tactic or something?

i was so, so upset, that they should make such awful claims without even backing them up (at least my classmate never did).

if i had known about Catholic Answers back then…:frowning:


#7

Here is a website shasta.com/sphaws/creeds.html that shows where many non-Catholic denominations literally wrote anti-Catholicism right into their creeds.

Some denominations would later repudiate them. Of course my question to non-Catholics is, were they right to put them in, or were they right to take them out? Who gets to decide? Why do they get to decide? How do you know they won’t be added back when the next soft breeze comes through? :smiley:

Scott


#8

[quote=antiaphrodite]i had a similar experience in high school. one of my protestant classmates had this sort of comics/graphic novel that, i don’t know if it was distributed by their church or something, but it depicted plainly that the Catholic Church was the whore of babylon, and that the Eucharist was some “new” form of worship of the eye of ra. and of course it showed how the worship of ishtar “developed” into the “worship” of Mary.

you can imagine i wasn’t too pleased about it. but i think i managed to keep my cool, and asked my classmate where they got these things and what proof they had that any of this was true.

she didn’t answer. she didn’t even say, “the Bible.” i mean she just left me hanging. is that a tactic or something?

i was so, so upset, that they should make such awful claims without even backing them up (at least my classmate never did).

if i had known about Catholic Answers back then…:frowning:
[/quote]

The Comic was probably Jack Chick’s “Alberto”…and it’s trash.
A great many of those who believe all this are so misled and messed up that they won’t believe you even if you handed them every proof there is. It’s sad, but it’s a fact of life.
Pax vobiscum,


#9

Can we blame them for saying what they do about us, in light of the sex cases? The Church itself estimates that there have been over 50,000 in the United States alone.


#10

P.S. sorry… i kept saying “friend” and “her” in my earlier post — I didn’t read “partner” and somehow misread it completely… silly me, very embrassed, and apologies,

Hugo.


#11

i guess…i wasn’t really able to look at the cover. the things inside were just too horrid. and the drawings weren’t even particularly nice!:mad:

and yes, you’re absolutely right.:frowning: :frowning:


#12

Yes, as a matter of sheer fact we can!
BR, You harp on this like it’s your personal hang up or something when in fact your statement has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic. The SDA have been bashing our faith virtually from their beginnings. I’ve seen many other of your posts like this and it’s old…really old.

Suggest that you stay on topic, in this case the SDA’a ongoing A/C attack on the Catholic faith, and leave your pet peeve, hang up, or whatever it is, alone. If you have issues with this, then take it to PM w/me, or open a thread on it .

There is no correllation between your remarks and the topic under discussion.
Pax vobiscum,


#13

[quote=BibleReader]Can we blame them for saying what they do about us, in light of the sex cases? The Church itself estimates that there have been over 50,000 in the United States alone.
[/quote]

only too many of the Church’s members have sinned. as for teh sex abuses, they’ve been going on looooooooong before the scandal in the u.s. i’m not sure they’re saying what they are because of them.


#14

What I find fascinating about the SDA is that they use a type of numerology to find that the Pope is the beast of Rev. They apparently have to use a title for the Pope that is not a true title but a variation they have come up with. They then use the latin numbers to show that when added together they add up to 666.
Karl addresses this very well in his book about fundamentalists but what he never pointed out is that numerology is forbidden in the Bible. One funny point he does make is that Martin Luther in latin also adds up to 666.

I agree that Mr. Batchelor comes across as a good and sincere man but they are very aware of what they are saying and doing. It is their intent to not only undermine Catholic truth, they want to completely anathemize it. It is important for them to do this in order to legitimize their own doctrine. I caught just a few minutes of him last night and he declared that millions had died at the hands of the church in the inquistion alone. This is a historically proveable error but how many of his listeners and followers will look into it further and discover the truth?

We cannot give this type of overt misrepresentation and attack a pass. It is not sincere Christianity to deliberately lie to and mislead your flock. You are right though that Mr. Batchelor is a man in need of serious prayer. May God strike him as he did St. Paul and ask “Why do you persecute me?”


#15

[quote=Katie1723]:confused: I accompanied my partner to a seminar at his church (SDA) in which the speaker (Douglas Batchelor) stated that, according to bible prophecies and numerous other sources which he quoted, the Roman Catholic church is considered by many to be the “Antichrist”. Can someone make some sense of this to me and also, just who exactly does this Pastor Batchelor thinks he is?
Thanks for being so kind !
~ Kathy ~
[/quote]

kathy this is an old sda attack which rears its head every so often.tell your friends of sda that the name ellen gould white, an adventist originator , her name contains the number 666.regards robert


#16

[quote=antiaphrodite]only too many of the Church’s members have sinned. as for teh sex abuses, they’ve been going on looooooooong before the scandal in the u.s. i’m not sure they’re saying what they are because of them.
[/quote]

I agree. But, we Catholics should not put so much gasoline on the fire!


#17

[quote=BibleReader]I agree. But, we Catholics should not put so much gasoline on the fire!
[/quote]

What “We Catholics”? You brought this up (again…and again…and again…and…)


#18

First off…those are sins of individual people…that is not representative of the CAtholic Church…you can not condemn everyone based off the actions of a few. Secondly, The Catholic Church is not the only place that has sexual abuse cases, but in fact, it is the only place that gets publicized when they have them, because the media waits around like vultures and they start salivating as soon as something negative about the Catholic Church makes the news…they can’t wait to trash the Church. To me, in light of all that goes on in this world…such as people saying the Church is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope is the anti-christ and the media trying to hang the Catholic Church by a noose…it is proof we are The ONe True Church instituted by Christ and the forces of evil are always trying very hard, by several means, to destroy the One True Church…but the promise by Christ has endured and will continue to endure…That the “gates of hell shall not prevail”

[quote=BibleReader]Can we blame them for saying what they do about us, in light of the sex cases? The Church itself estimates that there have been over 50,000 in the United States alone.
[/quote]


#19

Okay…can we now return to the Anti-Christ / SDA allegations that are the premiss of this thread. A discussion of “the scandals” is patently off topic.


#20

[quote=Katie1723]:confused: I accompanied my partner to a seminar at his church (SDA) in which the speaker (Douglas Batchelor) stated that, according to bible prophecies and numerous other sources which he quoted, the Roman Catholic church is considered by many to be the “Antichrist”. Can someone make some sense of this to me and also, just who exactly does this Pastor Batchelor thinks he is?
Thanks for being so kind !
~ Kathy ~
[/quote]

Katie,
You still here? Where you at one this… how are you doing? I watched the presentation last night… if it was not so hilarious, I would be very upset. Unforatunately, Pastor Bachelor does not attempt at all to check his facts and misrepresentations and therefore paints an interesting picture of the RCC.

However, I would suggest that his entire premise is WAY off base, starting with the beast its self.

Let me know what charged specifically you are concerned about…because it is REALLY easy to show how what he said cannot possibly be true… its in the verses he skipped when he jumped around the other night, not once did he really read the context of the passages.

Let me know!

Brandon


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