The Baptism of Jesus


#1

i have a quick question on the baptism. Now I understand the importance of this act and how it should be remembered/practiced, but some more of my technical questions arise…how did Jesus get baptized? John didnt say " i baptize you in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit" so what did he say. What did baptism even mean without those sacred words? in John’s time why would someone out of nowhere say sure ill get baptized if they never heard of Jesus?


#2

[quote=Catholic Dude]i have a quick question on the baptism. Now I understand the importance of this act and how it should be remembered/practiced, but some more of my technical questions arise…how did Jesus get baptized? John didnt say " i baptize you in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit" so what did he say. What did baptism even mean without those sacred words? in John’s time why would someone out of nowhere say sure ill get baptized if they never heard of Jesus?
[/quote]

No where do I know of do we see what “formula” of words John used, let alone whether Jesus was baptized by total immersion, or like all of the old paintings depict the scene, John is pouring the water over Jesus’ head.

It is only in Matthew 28:19 where Jesus gives the formula for His baptism, which is the baptism that counts! John’s baptism was the model for the baptism Jesus was to institute. He also demonstrated the humility and acceptance He expected those who were to follow Him to be baptized with water.

Jesus also adds something else, John alluded to concerning a “baptism in the Sprit” when He expained to Nicodemus in John 3:3 that to be “born again” (or to be born from above) takes a rebirth in “water and Spirit.”

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+

"…Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism which saves you now…"

1 Peter 3:20-21


#3

[quote=Catholic Dude]i have a quick question on the baptism. Now I understand the importance of this act and how it should be remembered/practiced, but some more of my technical questions arise…how did Jesus get baptized? John didnt say " i baptize you in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit" so what did he say. What did baptism even mean without those sacred words? in John’s time why would someone out of nowhere say sure ill get baptized if they never heard of Jesus?
[/quote]

Because the practice of Baptism has it’s roots in Jewish practice of ritual washing, but not as we know it as a Sacrament.


#4

[quote=Catholic Dude]i have a quick question on the baptism. Now I understand the importance of this act and how it should be remembered/practiced, but some more of my technical questions arise…how did Jesus get baptized? John didnt say " i baptize you in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit" so what did he say. What did baptism even mean without those sacred words? in John’s time why would someone out of nowhere say sure ill get baptized if they never heard of Jesus?
[/quote]

Please read Math 3:11-17. It is very self explanitory, especially verse 16 for all you sprinklers.
In Him, Dave.http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


#5

i assume, oudave, that you’re referring to ‘he went up out of the water’. which definitely nails your point - Jesus MUST have been immersed.

as long as you’re assuming that ‘going up out of the water’ is referring to His coming back up after being immersed.

it COULD, of course, be interpreted to mean ‘when Jesus exited the river’. which means He could have been sprinkled.

uh oh! :wink:

one answer to your question, catholic dude (and it was a good one), is that the jews practiced baptism before john, and then Jesus, came along. remember john was baptising people as they repented of their sins.

something i realized as i was praying the other night (i don’t say i was praying the rosary, so as not to scandalize our protestant brothers who are reading along). i was thinking about Jesus baptism in the jordan (a very luminous event) when it sort of ‘occurred’ to me that Jesus baptised baptism.

let me explain. no, there is too much. let me sum up.

i always wondered why Jesus was baptised, when He was sinless. sure, it was for an example for all of US to be baptised, too. but i always suspected there was more to it.

well, as i was praying about His baptism, i suddenly thought ‘you know what? i don’t think Jesus needed baptism. i think baptism needed Jesus! He changed baptism from the symbol of ritual purification from sin that it HAD been, into the sacramental cleansing from original sin that we know it to be today. He changed it into a sacrament!’

i asked around to some theologian friends of mine, and sure enough - that’s a teaching of the church.

amazing what happens when you ponder a ‘self explanAtory’ event like His baptism. :wink:


#6

Today 12:33 AMjeffreedy789

well, as i was praying about His baptism, i suddenly thought 'you know what? i don’t think Jesus needed baptism. i think baptism needed Jesus! He changed baptism from the symbol of ritual purification from sin that it HAD been, into the sacramental cleansing from original sin that we know it to be today. He changed it into a sacrament!'
i asked around to some theologian friends of mine, and sure enough - that’s a teaching of the church.
amazing what happens when you ponder a ‘self explanAtory’ event like His baptism.

I believe you are correct in your logic, but He fulfilled the Law by submitting to the water baptism, and John did say that the baptism Jesus would baptize with is with the Holy Spriit. So obviously there are two we need to consider. One is idenditification with water and the other is spiritural since the spirit cannot be seen but evidenced in what we believe and how we live.

Examples: Matthew 3:11-12 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire**.** (Compare this with 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall test every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.)
I don’t believe this teaches pergatory, but I do believe whatever is not done for God will be burned up.

As Jesus says to the scribe: Mark 12:28-34 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Teacher, you have said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said unto him, You are not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that dared ask him any question.


#7

I believe you are correct in your logic, but He fulfilled the Law by submitting to the water baptism,

Just what law was there that Jesus fulfilled in this baptism? To the best of my knowlege there is no command to be baptised until the NT comes along and so Jesus wasn’t obeying a jewish precept at this point. Remember that He told John that it was about fulfilling all righteousness. This was a case of Jesus setting a good example and also I have no doubt that He knew that the Holy Spirit would appear and that the Father would speak in order to affirm the beginning of His public ministry at that time.

In checking your profile I find that you specify no religious affiliation and from your scripture use and rejection of the Biblical doctrine of purgatory I deduce that you are non-Catholic, (which is fine, I guess…LOL)

Let’s touch on this example of Christ’s just for a second…In your religion, is baptism necessary for salvation?

I ask because I just realized that it is obvious that Jesus felt it was because He fulfulled all righteousness by submitting to it himself at the hands of St. John the Baptist, and then goes on to stress it’s necessity in other parts of the Gospel accounts. If your religion says that baptism is optional or not necessary for salvation (stressing it just that way, because it’s consistent with the Gospels) then I wonder how you can remain in such a non-scriptural church… please bear in mind that the Catholic view of baptism has obviously been around from the very beginning of Christianity.

http://pages.prodigy.net/hauxfan/Signs/Group_3/21.gif


#8

[quote=Church Militant]Just what law was there that Jesus fulfilled in this baptism? In checking your profile I find that you specify no religious affiliation and from your scripture use and rejection of the Biblical doctrine of purgatory I deduce that you are non-Catholic, (which is fine, I guess…LOL)
Christianity.

http://pages.prodigy.net/hauxfan/Signs/Group_3/21.gif
[/quote]

Your nasty LOL in part of your post was really not necessary, I find that really offensive, thank you very much. As to…

I don’t need to be affiliated with a denomination. I was born and raised a Roman Catholic church: first communion and confirmation on the same day, under the Vatican I system, 1961. (And they say they never change?) I have, since 1983 read the Bible for myself and have read every word as written; taking into account all the metaphors, similes, nuances etc and come to the conclusion that the Bible is the Word of God and Jesus is the Word manifest in the flesh.

As for Jesus baptism, He did fulfill the Law in that He got baptized by John, not because He needed to but to set the example. You must remember, Jesus was considered an illigitimate by those in His home town, so He did submit to John’s baptism. Matthew 3:15-16 And Jesus answering said unto him, Permit it to be so now: for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he permitted him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up immediately out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Joh 13:7-9; Ps 40:7-8; Isa 42:21; Lu 1:6; Joh 4:34; 8:29; 13:15; 15:10; Php 2:7-8; Heb 7:26; 1Pe 2:21-24; 1Jo 2:6

Jesus set a lot of precidents to exemplify Old Testement teaching. One of which was to be cleansed by washing to become a Jew, and the other was to be able to serve in the temple rituals; both were done away with when He died on the cross, but the baptism into His death and resurrection took that place. You also have to remember that Jesus lineage listed in Matthew, through to Abaraham Mat. 1:1, and Lukes through to Adam, Luke 3:38 demanded that He fulfill all of the requirements. Ultimately, His blood for us. Hence He was born of a sinful body, but, He Himself was sinless, in that He is God Manifest in the flesh. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Two things happened at His crucifixion. First was: Matthew 27:51-54 And, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks were split; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints that slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Notice, the veil was from God down, not from man up, and also the way was opened for a person to approach God with no other person. Jesus did it when He died.
This as all to do with baptism. Ge 50:13-14; 2Sa 19:37; 1Ki 15:8; 2Ki 9:28; 10:35; 12:21; 13:9; 14:20; 15:7; 2Ch 14:1; 16:14; 22:9; 25:28; 26:23; 27:9; 28:27; 32:33; 33:20; Ro 6:4; Col 2:12
the veil. Ex 26:31-37; 40:21; Le 16:2,12-15; 21:23; 2Ch 3:14; Isa 25:7; Mr 15:38; Lu 23:45; Eph 2:13-18; Heb 6:19; 10:19-22
the earth. Mt 28:2; Ps 18:7,15; Mic 1:3-4; Na 1:3-5; Hab 3:10,13; Heb 12:25-27; Re 11:13,19

If you really want to understand what Jesus did for us, read John and Hebrews. In John you will find the Y’shua Ha Meshiach, and in Hebrews you will see Him too in all His finest, Old and New Testament. In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, the last book of the New Testament, You will see Him as He is now in all His splendor and glory. Amen?

I hope this helps us both understand where we are coming from. I was a Roman Catholic for many years; now I just trust Jesus for my soul. I do not pray to anyone but Him.


#9

[quote=Heartbroke]Your nasty LOL in part of your post was really not necessary, I find that really offensive, thank you very much. As to…

I don’t need to be affiliated with a denomination. I was born and raised a Roman Catholic church: first communion and confirmation on the same day, under the Vatican I system, 1961. (And they say they never change?) I have, since 1983 read the Bible for myself and have read every word as written; taking into account all the metaphors, similes, nuances etc and come to the conclusion that the Bible is the Word of God and Jesus is the Word manifest in the flesh.

As for Jesus baptism, He did fulfill the Law in that He got baptized by John, not because He needed to but to set the example. You must remember, Jesus was considered an illigitimate by those in His home town, so He did submit to John’s baptism. Matthew 3:15-16 And Jesus answering said unto him, Permit it to be so now: for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he permitted him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up immediately out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Joh 13:7-9; Ps 40:7-8; Isa 42:21; Lu 1:6; Joh 4:34; 8:29; 13:15; 15:10; Php 2:7-8; Heb 7:26; 1Pe 2:21-24; 1Jo 2:6

Jesus set a lot of precidents to exemplify Old Testement teaching. One of which was to be cleansed by washing to become a Jew, and the other was to be able to serve in the temple rituals; both were done away with when He died on the cross, but the baptism into His death and resurrection took that place. You also have to remember that Jesus lineage listed in Matthew, through to Abaraham Mat. 1:1, and Lukes through to Adam, Luke 3:38 demanded that He fulfill all of the requirements. Ultimately, His blood for us. Hence He was born of a sinful body, but, He Himself was sinless, in that He is God Manifest in the flesh. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Two things happened at His crucifixion. First was: Matthew 27:51-54 And, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks were split; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints that slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Notice, the veil was from God down, not from man up, and also the way was opened for a person to approach God with no other person. Jesus did it when He died.
This as all to do with baptism. Ge 50:13-14; 2Sa 19:37; 1Ki 15:8; 2Ki 9:28; 10:35; 12:21; 13:9; 14:20; 15:7; 2Ch 14:1; 16:14; 22:9; 25:28; 26:23; 27:9; 28:27; 32:33; 33:20; Ro 6:4; Col 2:12
the veil. Ex 26:31-37; 40:21; Le 16:2,12-15; 21:23; 2Ch 3:14; Isa 25:7; Mr 15:38; Lu 23:45; Eph 2:13-18; Heb 6:19; 10:19-22
the earth. Mt 28:2; Ps 18:7,15; Mic 1:3-4; Na 1:3-5; Hab 3:10,13; Heb 12:25-27; Re 11:13,19

If you really want to understand what Jesus did for us, read John and Hebrews. In John you will find the Y’shua Ha Meshiach, and in Hebrews you will see Him too in all His finest, Old and New Testament. In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, the last book of the New Testament, You will see Him as He is now in all His splendor and glory. Amen?

I hope this helps us both understand where we are coming from. I was a Roman Catholic for many years; now I just trust Jesus for my soul. I do not pray to anyone but Him.
[/quote]

AMEN Heartbroke
It is amazing what happens when one puts his total faith in God and His Word. Funny thing that when you talk to a former catholic about why they are no longer a catholic it is because they started to study the Bible. Jn 8:32.
In Him, Dave.


#10

All I can say is :bigyikes:. You claim to follow strictly the Bible and the words of Jesus, yet you consistently go against his teaching!

[quote=Heartbroke]I don’t need to be affiliated with a denomination. I was born and raised a Roman Catholic church: first communion and confirmation on the same day, under the Vatican I system, 1961. (And they say they never change?) I have, since 1983 read the Bible for myself and have read every word as written; taking into account all the metaphors, similes, nuances etc and come to the conclusion that the Bible is the Word of God and Jesus is the Word manifest in the flesh.[emphasis mine]
[/quote]

Then why don’t you heed Jesus’s own words:

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

[quote=Heartbroke]I hope this helps us both understand where we are coming from. I was a Roman Catholic for many years; now I just trust Jesus for my soul. I do not pray to anyone but Him.
[/quote]

You don’t pray to the Father or the Holy Spirit? Might I remind you of Jesus’s instructions again?

Mat 6:9 Thus therefore shall you pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name…

[size=2]My friend in Christ, it appears to me that the heresy of sola scriptura has led you astray. Unfortunately, the result is that your novel interpretations are quite suspect and your credibilty suffers as a result. Based on this, I don’t see how you can seriously expect any of us to lend any weight to your position on this matter. With all sincere charity, I suggest that you reexamine your convictions and come back to Christ’s flock…the one, true Church He Himself founded.
[/size]


#11

[quote=oudave]AMEN Heartbroke
It is amazing what happens when one puts his total faith in God and His Word. Funny thing that when you talk to a former catholic about why they are no longer a catholic it is because they started to study the Bible. Jn 8:32.
In Him, Dave.
[/quote]

Correction, they are former Catholics because they started to interpret the Bible for themselves, which means they were free to make it say whatever they wanted it to say (and didn’t want it to say) with no authority but themselves. A very convenient type of religion suited for the proud and self-centered. (2 Peter 1:20-21)


#12

First of all thanks Will, Br Rich.
Also some great stuff from Jeff.

now when it comes to OuDave and Heart. I dont see these guys as being in the ultimate wrong when they bring up some stuff. i guess this is a passionate topic and i personally admire when any non Catholic comes in with REAL heart AND guns blazing. its a challenge for us and especially for them, they see this as a Lions Den situation with all us ready to jump.

some questions i have…

“I have, since 1983 read the Bible for myself and have read every word as written; taking into account all the metaphors, similes, nuances etc and come to the conclusion that the Bible is the Word of God and Jesus is the Word manifest in the flesh.”(heartbroke)

Where are we in disagreement? We all accept this

“You must remember, Jesus was considered an illigitimate by those in His home town, so He did submit to John’s baptism.”(Heartbroke)

what is this illigit thing? submit?

“One of which was to be cleansed by washing to become a Jew”(heartbroke)

by washing to become a Jew?, what about that thing in the temple after being a few days old?


#13

His what the Catechism says that directly addresses your question:

**The baptism of Jesus **

535 Jesus’ public life begins with his baptism by John in the Jordan.228 John preaches “a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins”.229 A crowd of sinners230 - tax collectors and soldiers, Pharisees and Sadducees, and prostitutes- come to be baptized by him. “Then Jesus appears.” The Baptist hesitates, but Jesus insists and receives baptism. Then the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, comes upon Jesus and a voice from heaven proclaims, "This is my beloved Son."231 This is the manifestation (“Epiphany”) of Jesus as Messiah of Israel and Son of God.

536 The baptism of Jesus is on his part the acceptance and inauguration of his mission as God’s suffering Servant. He allows himself to be numbered among sinners; he is already “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”.232 Already he is anticipating the “baptism” of his bloody death.233 Already he is coming to “fulfill all righteousness”, that is, he is submitting himself entirely to his Father’s will: out of love he consents to this baptism of death for the remission of our sins.234 The Father’s voice responds to the Son’s acceptance, proclaiming his entire delight in his Son.235 The Spirit whom Jesus possessed in fullness from his conception comes to “rest on him”.236 Jesus will be the source of the Spirit for all mankind. At his baptism "the heavens were opened"237 - the heavens that Adam’s sin had closed - and the waters were sanctified by the descent of Jesus and the Spirit, a prelude to the new creation.

537 Through Baptism the Christian is sacramentally assimilated to Jesus, who in his own baptism anticipates his death and resurrection. The Christian must enter into this mystery of humble self-abasement and repentance, go down into the water with Jesus in order to rise with him, be reborn of water and the Spirit so as to become the Father’s beloved son in the Son and “walk in newness of life”:238

Let us be buried with Christ by Baptism to rise with him; let us go down with him to be raised with him; and let us rise with him to be glorified with him.239
Everything that happened to Christ lets us know that, after the bath of water, the Holy Spirit swoops down upon us from high heaven and that, adopted by the Father’s voice, we become sons of God.240

228 Cf. Lk 3:23; Acts 1:22.
229 Lk 3:3.
230 Cf. Lk 3:10-14; Mt 3:7; 21:32.
231 Mt 3:13-17.
232 Jn 1:29; cf. Isa 53:12.
233 Cf. Mk 10:38; Lk 12:50.
234 Mt 3:15; cf. 26:39.
235 Cf. Lk 3:22; Isa 42:1.
236 Jn 1:32-33; cf. Isa 11:2.
237 Mt 3:16.
238 Rom 6:4.
239 St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 40, 9: PG 36, 369.
240 St. Hilary of Poitiers, In Matth. 2, 5: PL 9, 927.


#14

[quote=Fidelis]Correction, they are former Catholics because they started to interpret the Bible for themselves, which means they were free to make it say whatever they wanted it to say (and didn’t want it to say) with no authority but themselves.** A very convenient type of religion suited for the proud and self-centered.** (2 Peter 1:20-21)
[/quote]


Fidelis, thank you. I hope you don’t mind me posting this again.
I have found that Former Catholics are ignorant of the Catholic Faith in general. They were not true Catholics at any time. But they like to go around saying they “used to be Catholics” - as if that gives them some sort of credibility.


#15

[quote=Exporter]*************************************************************************
Fidelis, thank you. I hope you don’t mind me posting this again.
I have found that Former Catholics are ignorant of the Catholic Faith in general. They were not true Catholics at any time. But they like to go around saying they “used to be Catholics” - as if that gives them some sort of credibility.
[/quote]

I was not a catholic but my wife was, during her journy thru the Bible all she could say was that they never taught that in catholic school. My wife was a very devout catholic and has explained some things about the church to me.


#16

[quote=oudave]I was not a catholic but my wife was, during her journy thru the Bible all she could say was that they never taught that in catholic school. My wife was a very devout catholic and has explained some things about the church to me.
[/quote]

Judging by the atrocious state of Catholic catechesis in the last 30 years, your wife may be excused if she was not taught the essentials of the faith while a Catholic. It very likely is not her fault, and even the most devout Catholics can be ignorant of the rudiments of the Faith. As you can see from the knowledge level of many of the posters on this board, however, there is more to the Faith than she (or you) have been led to believe.

I invite you with all charity to stay around and sincerely look into what Catholics REALLY believe. The answers may surprise you both.


#17

That may be what they tell you, but they may not tell you everything. Many former Catholics leave because the Church takes tough stands on a variety of social issues. In the protestant church I used to attend, most of the parish council was formerly Catholic in marriages that the Catholic church wouldn’t accept. Another friend of mine left the Catholic Church because of it’s strong stance on abortion. Birth control leads others to look for greener pastures. The list goes on.

Fidelis also touched on the sad fact that many Catholics have been poorly taught the faith. Every Mass we include Bible readings during the Liturgy of the Word, but if a Catholic isn’t told about the structure of the Mass, they may not know that’s what we’re doing.
I am so very glad that oudave and his wife fell in love with reading the Bible. And he seems to have a real love for Catholics that he desires for us to be saved. I do pray that they will take a look at what the Church really teaches.


#18

[quote=Fidelis]Judging by the atrocious state of Catholic catechesis in the last 30 years, your wife may be excused if she was not taught the essentials of the faith while a Catholic. It very likely is not her fault, and even the most devout Catholics can be ignorant of the rudiments of the Faith. As you can see from the knowledge level of many of the posters on this board, however, there is more to the Faith than she (or you) have been led to believe.

I invite you with all charity to stay around and sincerely look into what Catholics REALLY believe. The answers may surprise you both.
[/quote]

I must tell you that it is not my wife who is ignorant, her eyes were opened to the truth by spending in the Word with God. You might try a lot of the same.
Dave


#19

[quote=Fidelis]Judging by the atrocious state of Catholic catechesis in the last 30 years, your wife may be excused if she was not taught the essentials of the faith while a Catholic. It very likely is not her fault, and even the most devout Catholics can be ignorant of the rudiments of the Faith. As you can see from the knowledge level of many of the posters on this board, however, there is more to the Faith than she (or you) have been led to believe.

I invite you with all charity to stay around and sincerely look into what Catholics REALLY believe. The answers may surprise you both.
[/quote]

Could you please inform me on just what the essentials of the faith are?
Dave


#20

‘i’m not ignorant, you are’

‘no, i’m not, you are.’

‘nuh-uh. shutup.’

‘YOU shutup…’

such a silly argument. and a recurring one.

i think (correct me if i’m wrong, churchmilitant) that the LOL to which you took offense was not intended as a mocking laugh about your being protestant, but laughing at himself for saying that it’s ok for you to BE protestant.

i’m not sure how our discussion of the baptism of Jesus has turned into an argument on sola scriptura. i respectfully suggest that we start a new thread if we intend to debate sola scriptura (again), and please keep this thread focused on Jesus’s baptism.

any other insights on this? i was reading about it today, and i find the trinitarian aspect interesting. my brother pointed out that anytime you have a major teaching on a sacramental practice in scripture, you (almost?) always have a trinitarian aspect involved. this is expressed at His baptism by God the Father speaking from heaven, and then the Holy Spirit descending like a dove unto Jesus.

it’s interesting to note that Jesus would NOT have been baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (in other words, John would not have said this as he baptised Him), yet He WAS baptised in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by virtue of their presence in His act.


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