The Beast in the 20th Century and Now

I just spent over an hour writing here and then lost the whole thing! Hopefully I can express everything I was trying to convey.

I went to the Protestant Assembly of God for quite a while and took courses there and got information on the beast, etc. in the course of just being there. Their view seems to be one of self-interpretation as when I finally found Catholic books on the subject I found that the Catholics are really in the know, esp. because they believe in the apparitions of the Virgin Mary and post-Biblical exhortations, prophecies, visions, saints, etc. and have written a great deal about them.

Well I read the book “Witness” by Josyp Terelya with Michael H. Brown. Josyp was imprisoned and tortured in the Ukraine and visions and encouragment from Mother Mary helped him endure that. She showed him, among other things, peoples faces with evil grins on them. People that had been around him, some, I believe were people he had known.

Also a Pope at the end of the 19th century (Pope Leo?) had a vision in which the devil came to God and asked Him if he could have any century in which he could war against the church with everything he had. God said yes and the devil picked the 20th. But God said, I will make the church stronger too. Parts of the vision were so horrifying that the Pope made up the prayer to St. Michael to be said after every low Mass.

Then I read “The Thunder of Justice” by Ted and Maureen Flynn, forward by Malachi Martin and it was about what Mother Mary had to say about “The Warning; The Miracle; The Chastisement; The Era of Peace.” I’ve read dozens of books on the subject but can’t speak to anyone I know because all of my friends and family are atheists or just plain non-believers. Some hatefully so and will argue and argue against someone with a faith in Jesus.

I’ve seen young people all over make what most would call a gang sign, but I believe it is the mark of the beast on the hand: forefinger and little finger extended. Of course it’s also a rather innocent sign for the Texas Longhorns and others too, but when I see dozens or hundreds of youngsters raising their hands with that sign at rock concerts, I believe it’s for the bull. The same bull as the golden calf that the rebellious Jews were worshiping when rebellion set in after they exited Egypt. The Egyptian religion. The Babylonian religion. The Roman and Greek religions.

I believe, contrary to the Protestant teaching, that the beast is not just one man, but almost the entire civilization of the planet. Jesus spoke of the beast that was (the civilization before the flood) and was not now (but the “spirit” of the antichrist was there-in other words, it didn’t have the power over the whole planet nor the membership numbers) then the beast that shall be–the one now. I believe it’s been around since the beginning of the 20th century, probably working up steam til then, reached a pinacle sometime in the 60’s which Fatima alluded to and is now unbelievably powerful-the civilization that covers the entire earth EXCEPT FOR THE ELECT–the invisible church of Jesus Christ. Invisible because it doesn’t reside in any bldg. but in the temples, the hearts, of His people. The moral state of the whole world that puts its faith in science and technology and thinks people who believe in the devil or God are crazy is declining. This is why Jesus Christ Himself has to come and take over the world and make war against the beast, I believe.
The 4 horsemen must ride first, etc. I think most believers are familiar with Revelation at this point.

I know myself that the spirit that attacks me when I speak of Jesus to certain people is a very ugly one. There was one time in fact when I must have been ignorant of the danger to me, because I felt the Spirit of Christ come to my aid and soothed the people that had been arguing adamantly against me.

Then once, a person I knew well was looking at a dragon on tv and his face broke out in the most horrible grin. Josyp Terelya’s book came to mind and I immediately knew what was going on (thanks be to God for preparing me for that moment by having led me to the Catholic books.) Suddenly all the pieces began to come together and I started to realize where in time we were as well as many other things I had read.

Again, the beast is here now; has been here for a long time ("for a great falling away must come first, then he will be revealed. This falling away has occurred in the Catholic Church, Protestant churches and nowdays it seems as if one can believe in anything except Christianity.) We have all seen the results of Madeline Murray O’Hare and the 10 Commandments being removed from public places, nativity scenes, etc. Never mind even the great animosity I found that the Assembly of God church has against Catholics (and about 1/3 to 1/2 of their members by my account of where I went, are former Catholics.)
Even bad men sign up to be Priests so they can cause havoc and ruin the reputation of the Catholics and cause such suffering. Christianity is even at odds within itself!

I almost lost this whole thread a 2nd time so I’m going to leave it here. I’ve read maybe 100 books, pamphlets; taken courses at churches, etc. on this subject and would be delighted and spiritually uplifted to discuss this topic, pray about it, hear from others, etc.

Most Sincerely in Christ
stevie underhill

ps I would like to add that Margaret Sanger who “started” free love and the abortion movement appeared in the beginning of the 20th and Alistair Crowley who called himself the “beast 666” started the Order of the Golden Dawn in England. I believe one of his students was Anton LaVey who had that church of satan in CA and influenced so much of Hollywood. I believe his daughter now runs it due to his death a while back (saw them on the Phil Donahue show downplaying their “religion” a long time ago.)

I thought the beast war Nero? I’m sure someone can post a link.

If you look hard enough, you will see Satan everywhere, because he is everywhere. However, the same is true with God. Stop worrying so much. Living a life of fear is no life to live at all. The gates of hell will no defeat the Church, that was Jesus’ promise.

Also, I want to point out that ever since the book of Revelation was written, people believed they lived in the time it would happen. Well, it hasn’t happend yet, and quite frankly I don’t want to be around when it does. I have a survival plan, should Earth literally go to hell, but I don’t focus on it. I suggest you do the same.

There’s very little in this rambling and incoherent post that even makes sense. Is there some kind of a point you’re trying to make?

The moral state of the whole world that puts its faith in science and technology and thinks people who believe in the devil or God are crazy is declining.

Maybe. Then again, maybe not. It’s been a long time since anyone has ever been publicly imprisoned or executed as a “heretic,” for example. There are a lot of signs that the secular world is a lot more civilized than the world still under the iron fist of theocracies.

Alistair Crowley who called himself the “beast 666” started the Order of the Golden Dawn in England. I believe one of his students was Anton LaVey who had that church of satan in CA and influenced so much of Hollywood.

It’s spelled “Aleister,” and no, he didn’t found the Golden Dawn – he was a member, along with a number of other interesting Victorian characters, including W.B. Yeats. And no, LaVey was never a “student” of Crowley’s.

What any of this has to do with anything else is anyone’s guess. Get help.

My advice to you is to just live each day as if Christ is coming today. You will be at peace and living a holy life will have the promise of Eternal Life with Christ.

Years ago my friends who were/are Charismatics talked about the end of the world all the time. They dovoted so much of their days thinking about what would happen, that it consumed their whole lives. This was 25 years ago and they are still waiting.

Just keep going to Mass and reading positive books about the faith and don’t dwell on the end times. Even Christ didn’t know the time or day.

You sound young and I have a daughter who sometimes start to worry about the same things your talking about. We must just have faith and keep our lamps lit and our hearts open to Christ and not worry as He is in control.

Be joyful in your Catholic faith and pray for your former brothers and sisters that someday they too will see the truth of the Catholic Church.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Rev 17.3
…a scarlet coloured beast,
…having seven heads (are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth17:9)
and ten horns (are ten kings 17:12 ).

How is Nero scarlet with 7 mountains (heads with the woman sitting atop) and 10 kings (horns) ??

The beast sounds non-human to me,

but then again I don’t know for sure.

Ok, so my post seemed rambling and non-sensical with no point to some. As I said, I lost it twice and it was the third time around for me after a long, hot, hard day. I’ve read a lot so I had a typo in Aleister Crowley’s name and I read about him so long ago that I missed a pertinent fact. Sorry. But the truth of him remains the same. He openly worshipped the devil and admitted it and boasted of it. The life he led is a testament to that alone.

Also: I have been in Protestant churches for a long time. This is a very open subject with them. However they are looking for a certain man to be revealed as the beast and very soon at that. They also believe that the rapture is to happen at any moment now. No one will tell you there to “get help” if you have a question on the subject or just wish to discuss some aspect of it. It’s a “given” that we are living in the last times. (It’s especially a little joke in my area because our little city is a city of seven hills believe it or not.)

I found this forum the other day, have been trying to go back to the Catholic Church but am an “in betweener” at this stage and assumed that this would make an interesting topic of discussion. But maybe that’s just a difference between the Catholics and Protestants. The church that I went to offered many different courses on the Bible, Bible study groups, other study groups specific to various topics of concern, DVD presentations, etc. Very active and always something to do or learn. And of course it was Pentecostal and Charismatic with healing services, etc.

Maybe I made a mistake posting that topic here, but that’s the background I have come from. I do apologize if it offended anyone. I knew it might light a fire here and there, but I didn’t expect quite the response I got.

Another thing: there have been more martyrs and persecutions in this era that in all of the other centuries combined (another thing I read and was also told–will try to find the reference later.) Josyp Terelya was just one example of someone who was imprisoned and tortured just for his faith though he is still alive and wasn’t martyred.

Thanks for all of your replies and may God Bless! It is a pretty heavy subject.

Sounds like you’re leaving,
before you go (if you don’t mind) do you have a theory on who/what is the beast?
Al Crowley or something else ?

Yes, I do have a theory as to what the beast is. I differ from most Protestants in that they are expecting one man to be the beast who will head a 10 nation world wide confederacy of sorts that will control the whole world.

I on the other hand think of the words of Jesus, and I paraphrase, when He said as it was in the days of Noah, shall it be then. Well in the days of Noah, it was so awful that God destroyed all the wicked and even animals save Noah, his family and chosen animals. That was the whole world, so I believe that it was the entire civilization at that time. Remember how it said in Genesis that essentially, and I’m paraphrasing again, that the bad angels left their first estate because they were attracted to the beauty of human women and came down and took them as wives. They taught them all sorts of evils (see the Book of Enoch) and begat giants who made havoc of the world (the Titans and "gods’ that were later referred to: Zeus, Mercury, Poseidon of myths and legend) I believe the Bible referred to them as men of renown.

That’s why I believe it’s the entire world/civilization and not just one man. Remember though, the Bible said that the Elect would be saved but that because of the delusion that men would believe, God would strengthen that delusion and it would be difficult for mankind to be saved. And even the Elect might have difficulty. This is what I believe are the days of the tribulation and the saints (believers) who die during this period have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and may have a very special place in heaven.

Just look at the song lyrics that are in some of the songs today; abortion (reminds me of the old pagan rituals of sacrificing of children to some god or other); elimination of the 10 commandments and nativity scenes from public places; persecution of Christians in far off lands and martyrdom (greater than ever.) Wars and rumors of wars (with China esp. or WW III.) I could go on and on. But I won’t. I’ll just say that this is an on-going topic with Protestants and they just assume we are in the end times. Many talk about this subject all of the time. That’s why I remain an “in betweener” for there’s a lot to be gained in both Protestantism and Catholicism for me. I don’t get so much into theological debates. I just like being around lovers of Christ and interesting discussions!

I have no idea what the delusion could be. Perhaps it’s that our society seems so civilized from all previous ones that this type of thing couldn’t possibly be going on and why it’s the furthest thing from a lot of people’s minds. Just a guess.

Shalom
su

The Pope talks about the dragon in Revelation in his homily on the Assumption here. I think you will find it interesting.

Thank you very much for that post. Not only was it interesting but I found it inspiring and especially comforting to my heart.

Shalom
su

:eek: - What kind of program was on tv? In what context was the dragon being displayed?

WIth regards to the rest of your post. You make some interesting points - and sure the devil seems to be having his ‘hour’. However, IMHO I really don’t think speculations (although I am not denying the veracity of your claims) about the end times are worth dwelling on as they can provoke debilitating fear! That said I do like to dip into meditations on the apocalypse occasionally - if only because it jolts me back into prayer!

By all means live each day as your last and dwell on Christ coming and keep your soul united to the Lord Jesus in prayer and by living the life of grace. Keep spreading the Gospel and remember your friends and family need your love and prayers - if they ignore you don’t give up on them -although maybe apocalyptic terrors are going to scare them off… so you may want to start by showing them the Merciful Christ or the beauty of the Liturgy before venturing into eschatology and presenting them with Dies Irae.

Incidentally Have you read Benson’s light of the world? I am thinking of giving it a try

Oremus pro invicem - John

Good post…so tell me about this survival plan :slight_smile:

I am a convert. Best decision I ever made…don’t remain an inbetweener too long! The Sacraments are too good/(dangerous even) to miss out on - don’t deny yourself - nourish yourself :thumbsup:

God Bless - Incidentally if you like the Book of Revelation read Scott Hahn’s opus magnus ‘The Lambs Supper’

Ok, you asked for some discussion, then here it is!!!

i agree with you on some major points, disagree on others. You threw a lot in there! (Angels did not mate with men, and there were mighty men of God - that is divinely inspired men of God.)

I too think the ‘beast’ is more an indication of widespread evil. I think the great delusion is the same as the first delusion - man can be God. Man can have the knowledge of good and evil, meaning that man can determine what is good and what is evil. And of course this means man can change it, capriciously. This is how it is in our time.

While many here say just pray, be a good person, and relax, there is more to it. I said in another thread that the last days present a boundary condition, and things are different for boundary conditions. That is why Jesus said there would be signs of the approach of the end. He wanted us to know, so we could convert before it was too late (especially the young so caught up in this apostasy who live very neo-pagan lifestyles right now - should Jesus appear w/o any signs, these would surely be lost.) And yes, those signs have been given by Jesus, and many have been fulfilled.

All the evidence around me tells me we are in the last days.

I believe Pope Leo’s vision of Satan and Jesus to be true.

**But we should be joyous rather than afraid. ** On the near horizon, like a giant storm in our path, is a great fire, the fire of Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3:7, that will cover the whole earth, and remake it. [Jesus spoke of baptism of water and the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is associated with fire. In Noah’s day, the earth was destroyed by water; the second time it will be by fire.] We cannot go around this fire, nor can we run from it. It is there, looming, just in front of us. The only way is forward, through the great fire. Those who love God (who do His will, His commandments) will pass through the fire and “come out”. Those who do not, well…they are the ashes spoken of in Malachi 3:21 .

And those who trust in His name (Divine Mercy image) and are merciful and ask for mercy, will also “come out”.

The other side of the fire is heaven on earth, eternal life in the presence of our dead loved ones resurrected, the Kingdom come, on earth, as it is in heaven. So have no fear, but prepare your soul and those around you - your family, your children - to pass through the fire unharmed.

The time is short - there is not much time to convert and to fill your hands with acts of mercy towards your “neighbors” as spoken of by Jesus to St. Faustina.

As a hint of where we are on the time line, Elijah has come, the Great Tribulation has already been cut short, and we are very near the end of the “time, times, and a half time” that is the “short time” given to Satan as mentioned in Rev 20 and Daniel. When that “short time” ends, the fire comes (again, this is in Rev 20).

From the EWTN website we have this:
Sr. Faustina gives us the Words of the Mother of Mercy, the Blessed Virgin,

[INDENT] You have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy. (Diary 635).

It is clear that, like the message of Fátima, the urgency here is the urgency of the Gospel, “repent and believe.” The exact timing is the Lord’s. However, it is also clear that we have reached some critical phase of the end times that began with the birth of the Church. To this fact Pope John Paul II alluded at the consecration in 1981 of the Shrine of Merciful Love in Collevalenaza, Italy, when he noted the “special task” assigned to him by God “in the present situation of man, the Church and the world.” In His Encyclical on the Father he urges us "to implore God’s mercy for humanity in this hour of history … to beg for it at this difficult, critical phase of the history of the Church and of the world[/INDENT]

Blessed Mary spoke these words in the 1930s. Note that she said the Last Day has already been decided (bolded).

It is very close.

You asked for discussion; I hope I obliged somewhat! Have at it!

God bless you.

Ok, you asked for some discussion, then here it is!!!

i agree with you on some major points, disagree on others. You threw a lot in there! (Angels did not mate with mankind, and there were mighty men of God - that is divinely inspired men of God.)

I too think the ‘beast’ is more an indication of widespread evil. I think the great delusion is the same as the first delusion - man can be God. Man can have the knowledge of good and evil, meaning that man can determine what is good and what is evil. And of course this means man can change it, capriciously. This is how it is in our time.
Relativism, modernism dominate.

While many here say just pray, be a good person, and relax, there is more to it. I said in another thread that the last days present a boundary condition, and things are different for boundary conditions. That is why Jesus said there would be signs of the approach of the end. He wanted us to know, so we could convert before it was too late (especially the young so caught up in this apostasy who live very neo-pagan lifestyles right now - should Jesus appear w/o any signs, these would surely be lost.) And yes, those signs have been given by Jesus, and many have been fulfilled.

All the evidence around me tells me we are in the last days.

I believe Pope Leo’s vision of Satan and Jesus to be true.

Just over the horizon, like a giant storm in our path, is a great fire, the fire of Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3:7, that will cover the whole earth, and remake it. [Jesus spoke of baptism of water and the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is associated with fire. In Noah’s day, the earth was destroyed by water; the second time it will be by fire.] We cannot go around this fire, nor can we run from it. It is there, looming, just in front of us. The only way is forward, through the great fire. Those who love God (who do His will, His commandments) will pass through the fire and “come out”. Those who do not, well…they are the ashes spoken of in Malachi 3:21 .

And those who trust in His name (Divine Mercy image) and are merciful and ask for mercy, will also “come out”.

**But we should be joyous rather than afraid. **
The other side of the fire is heaven on earth, eternal life in the presence of our dead loved ones resurrected, the Kingdom come, on earth, as it is in heaven. So have no fear, but prepare your soul and those around you - your family, your children - to pass through the fire unharmed.

The time is short - there is not much time to convert and to fill your hands with acts of mercy towards your “neighbors” as spoken of by Jesus to St. Faustina.

From the EWTN website we have this:
Sr. Faustina gives us the Words of the Mother of Mercy, the Blessed Virgin,

[INDENT] You have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy. (Diary 635).

It is clear that, like the message of Fátima, the urgency here is the urgency of the Gospel, “repent and believe.” The exact timing is the Lord’s. However, it is also clear that we have reached some critical phase of the end times that began with the birth of the Church. To this fact Pope John Paul II alluded at the consecration in 1981 of the Shrine of Merciful Love in Collevalenaza, Italy, when he noted the “special task” assigned to him by God “in the present situation of man, the Church and the world.” In His Encyclical on the Father he urges us "to implore God’s mercy for humanity in this hour of history … to beg for it at this difficult, critical phase of the history of the Church and of the world[/INDENT]

Blessed Mary spoke these words in the 1930s. Note that she said the Last Day has already been decided (bolded).

It is very close.

You asked for discussion; I hope I obliged somewhat! Have at it!

God bless you.

If I recall correctly from Bible Study a long time ago, John wrote Revelation to the Church being persecuted and used symbology that his audience would understand. Scarlet coloured beast refers to the robes worn by the emperor (Nero) dyed red in the blood of the martyrs. The seven heads/mountains refter to the 7 hills of Rome (I used to know what the 10 horns alluded to) again referring to the emperor.

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