[quote="Katie_Kilbane, post:11, topic:355383"]
In Islaam, the truth is the Qur'aan and Sunnah -what Muslims believe to be Divine Revelation revealed directly to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel.
But the Bible gives us a test on how to discern/determine if a spirit is indeed from God.
The men who are known by the truth are the companions of Prophet Muhammad - those who lived out their lives next to him over the course of the revelation (23 years) and whoever follows them until the Last day.
I was relating" truth" to Scripture (whether Quran or bible) and "men" - well to men. In the case of Islam they are the pious predeccesors and those who follow them. In the case of Catholicism they are the church fathers and founders of church teachings.
The Early Church Fathers, of ECFs, initially, were the disciples of the 12 apostles themselves, trained and taught by them, and passed on their teachings and authority to them...which they then did the same...and this same passing of teaching and authority is preserved:
From Clement of Rome, disciple of Peter and ordained by Peter, writes in AD90 or so:
1Clem 42:4 So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe.
1Clem 44:2 For this cause therefore, having received complete foreknowledge, they appointed the aforesaid persons, and afterwards they provided a continuance, that if these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed to their ministration.
We call this apostolic succession: catholic.com/tracts/apostolic-succession
How authority is passed on:
18 So the Lord said to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit of leadership,[a] and lay your hand on him. 19 Have him stand before Eleazar the priest and the entire assembly and commission him in their presence.........22 Moses did as the Lord commanded him. He took Joshua and had him stand before Eleazar the priest and the whole assembly. 23 Then he laid his hands on him and commissioned him, as the Lord instructed through Moses.
In the NT:
at Acts 13:
1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.
My analogy - although perhaps not a good one - was that in Catholic beliefs, the truth (scripture) is known by men (church fathers, teachings) But since scripture is not the foundation of Catholicism - the church teachings (men i.e. church fathers, church teachings) are not known by the truth (scripture).
You analogy is confusing....:D
Anyway...the teachings of Christ was handed down to the Apostles and some Apostles wrote something.....then passed on to their disciples/successors....preserved these apsotolic writings........some these disciples wrote what they learned, put it in writings....these successors later selected writings that would comprise the OT and the NT and called it the Bible. The writings that would not make it to the NT are called ECF writings, which expound on the Christian faith.
The Scripture are a reflection of Church teaching....ie..Church teachings explain why Scripture is what it is.