The Bible Code

I’ve tried to post this on the AAA, but it isn’t showing up…so I’m assuming that I’m not posting it correctly (I’m lousy with computers).
Question: What is the Catholic Churches position on the Bible Code? Why do they hold that position? Are their any web-cites or books that you could recomend?
Thank you and God bless!!!

there is no such thing as the bible code. the bible is divine revelation and is available to all who seek the truth in it simply by reading it, hearing it proclaimed and interpreted by authorized teachers. No need for any bizarre codes to be analyzed in a search for abstruse prophetic messages. Besides, if you saw a recent history channel special on the book that was popular a few years ago, it has been debunked by several experts and is nothing more than a fabrication based on some medieval kabbalistic legends. some authorities go further and claim it is a money making hoax, but I am being kind.

[quote=puzzleannie]there is no such thing as the bible code. the bible is divine revelation and is available to all who seek the truth in it simply by reading it, hearing it proclaimed and interpreted by authorized teachers. No need for any bizarre codes to be analyzed in a search for abstruse prophetic messages. Besides, if you saw a recent history channel special on the book that was popular a few years ago, it has been debunked by several experts and is nothing more than a fabrication based on some medieval kabbalistic legends. some authorities go further and claim it is a money making hoax, but I am being kind.
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I’ll be unkind!: It is a money-making hoax.

One analyst took the Bible Code computer program and applied it to the Hebrew language version of Tolstoy’s War and Peace, about the same length as the Pentateuch, and came up with approximately the same frequency of accidentally-occurring “meaningfulnesses.”

See Who Wrote the Bible Code, by Randall Ingermanson.

Once one understands precisely what the Bible Code computer program does, it becomes obvious that a third grader could construct fake Bible “codes” with the program. It’s simplicity, itself. It’s so simple and obvious that it must be the case that the Bible Code authors understand the defect in their logic. In effect, here is how the Bible Code works.

m a r y h a d a



l i t t l e l a



m b w h o s e f



l e e c e w a s



w h i t e a s s



n o w

While it is true that a Bible code was “developed”, it does not mean that it is accurate or true. Yes, according to thier “code” things have happened that are accurate, but it has also been in error as well. There is one man (though I do not remember his name) that showed how a code could also be use to make predictions using the Charles Dickens book Moby Dick. This doesn’t mean that Charles Dickens had a secret ability to predict the future events, it just means that a code can be developed and applied to anything.

Remember that Satan was once the most intelligent angel before he fell to his demise…he knows how to make things work his was and fool us (mankind) as we are lower than the angels. Also remember that Mathmatics are a manmade way of understanding something we can’t otherwise understand. Just as a measurement or as time.

The Bible code is interesting, but it is harmful to faith and therefore should be avoided.

Many others he probably can shed more light on this than I can.

thanks for replying so quickley guys! I had many of the same ideas. I was just hoping for some more proof so I could debunk some of the Web-cites that are “using” the Bible-code to “prove” that the pope is the anti-christ. So if any of you have anything more to add, I’d greatly apreciate it.

Thank you all very much!!

[quote=CorrWaveClan]thanks for replying so quickley guys! I had many of the same ideas. I was just hoping for some more proof so I could debunk some of the Web-cites that are “using” the Bible-code to “prove” that the pope is the anti-christ. So if any of you have anything more to add, I’d greatly apreciate it.

Thank you all very much!!
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Northrop Frye had some things to say about it in his book *The Great Code. *If memory serves me, Rolande Barthe probably also had some things to say about it.

Of late, and particularly since a film is being made about it, people have been dredging up The Da Vinci Code.

catholic.com/library/cracking_da_vinci_code.asp

I’ve heard of the Bible Code, but not in any detail.

As for defending His Holiness, why not go to the Catholic Answers apologetics pages? They have a lot of very useful information there.

catholic.com/library/practical_apologetics.asp

Could you give me the names of the Bible Code websites. Maybe if I visit them, it would jog my memory.

Drosnin’s The Bible Code is beneath the Church’s dignity.

I read The Bible Code carefully. It is a fake.

What The Bible Code computer program does is take the Hebrew language version of the Pentateuch and arrange it into giant word search game rectangles of varying length and widths and look for modern Hebrew language references to significant political events in diagonally-, vertically-, and horizontally-located words, like this…

64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:jNHXzfuzjqsJ:www.bibleshop.com/slide8.html+Bible+Code+Hebron+Goldstein&hl=en

(a diagonal “Goldstein” near the horizontal word “Hebron” and the horizontal Hebrew words in Leviticus 17:3 saying “man of Israel will slaughter”)

To generate the “code” illustrated at that hyperlink, notice how easy it would have been to create the precise same result with fraud in mind, by working backwards: Drosnin could have thought to himself, “Hmmmmm, how can I find a reference to the killing of Moslems by that fellow Goldstein in that Mosque in Hebron in 1994?”

TO BE CONTINUED…

CONTINUED FROM ABOVE…

He could have picked up a simple King James Bible concordance and looked up the word “killeth” and, lo and behold, the first verse it takes him to is Leviticus 17:3 which contains the Hebrew words reading, “man of the house of Israel that killeth.” “Perfect!,” he could have thought to himself.

Next, he could have turned on his Bible Code computer program, and requested the program to do a “word search” in the enormous Pentateuch matrix for all diagonal and vertical “Goldstein’s.” Let’s say the computer takes him to 847 different vertical and horizontal Hebrew versions of the name “Goldstein.” He could have searched carefully for one that passes through Leviticus 17:3. That turns out to be the “Goldstein” pictured in his book.

Next, he could have looked up the word “Hebron” in his concordance, and seen that that place name occurs at 5 places in Genesis and once in the Book of Numbers. He could have kept shrinking the image on his computer screen, to include more and more Bible text, until he comes across the “Hebron” in Numbers 13:22 first.

“Oh, cool!,” he could have thought to himself. “Perfect! It is visually close enough so that I can now declare this to be a message from God!”

In other words, a Hebrew-speaking Israeli third grader could have constructed that “Bible Code.”

Note what Bible Code believers don’t do as they discern these “codes.”

(1) They don’t pay attention to the fact that the vertical and horizontal “words” they find are merely seemingly rational words occurring among trillions of pieces of verbal nonsense, at about the same rate that a billion monkeys hammering randomly on a billion typewriters accidentally generate words. A statistician, Randall Ingermanson, proved this in his book, Who Wrote the Bible Code, by finding the same frequenbcy of rational verbiage when he applied the Bible Code program to a Hebrew language version of War and Peace!

(2) They don’t pay attention to nearby Hebrew language negations in horizontal, vertical and diagonal “texts” – a statement that Goldstein did “not” kill anyone in Hebron, very, very easily found!

(3) They don’t pay attention to ridiculous “statements” in the Bible Code matrices, like a matrix saying “**Goldstein **of Hebron married Ms. Marilyn Monroe and fathered Michael Jackson.

When they don’t pay attention to these vast mountains of nonsense and instead pay attention to, and so filter-out of the nonsense their “massages from God” about Goldstein killing Moslems in Hebron, they make the assumption that God isn’t telling us things like, “**Goldstein **of Hebron married Ms. Marilyn Monroe and fathered Michael Jackson.

By “filtering” the way they do, and then working backwards as previously described, they could have easily – very, very easiuly – perpetrated a fraud by generating the illusion of messages from God.

[quote=CorrWaveClan]I’ve tried to post this on the AAA, but it isn’t showing up…so I’m assuming that I’m not posting it correctly (I’m lousy with computers).
Question: What is the Catholic Churches position on the Bible Code? Why do they hold that position? Are their any web-cites or books that you could recomend?
Thank you and God bless!!!
[/quote]

The Catholic position is that the Bible Code is a bunch of rubbish, akin to tea leaves and palmistry. Put your faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, not in clever manuevering of the letters of the Pentateuch.

There is one man (though I do not remember his name) that showed how a code could also be use to make predictions using the Charles Dickens book Moby Dick.

I don’t mean to nitpick, but Moby Dick was written by Herman Melville, not Charles Dickens.

Other than that, :thumbsup: on your post.

[quote=BibleReader]By “filtering” the way they do, and then working backwards as previously described, they could have easily – very, very easiuly – perpetrated a fraud by generating the illusion of messages from God.
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Wow. This is hurtful. Sounds like the same old same old. Start with a projective identification about someone else (well has to be about someone else by definition) and then selectively sift through the Bible finding ‘support’ for condemning that someone else, while ignoring the plethora of admonitions in the Bible to refrain from doing just what is being done. Dunno if that makes sense.

Beats me why people don’t just learn how to read.

With that “Bible Code” method you can find hidden messages in any large text. It will work with the Quran, Shakespear’s works, and all issues of the Hustler magazine.

The method itself is not a fake, it simply proves nothing.

It should even work better (and with shorter texts), if the text is not only scanned in two dimensions but more. Put characters into a 5-dimensional hypercube and search in any direction there, the results will be awesome.

[quote=AnAtheist]With that “Bible Code” method you can find hidden messages in any large text. It will work with the Quran, Shakespear’s works, and all issues of the Hustler magazine.

The method itself is not a fake, it simply proves nothing.

It should even work better (and with shorter texts), if the text is not only scanned in two dimensions but more. Put characters into a 5-dimensional hypercube and search in any direction there, the results will be awesome.
[/quote]

Hmmm, never heard of the Hustler Code before. Does it say that Larry Flynt is the savior of secular humanism?

[quote=AnAtheist]With that “Bible Code” method you can find hidden messages in any large text. It will work with the Quran, Shakespear’s works, and all issues of the Hustler magazine.

The method itself is not a fake, it simply proves nothing.

It should even work better (and with shorter texts), if the text is not only scanned in two dimensions but more. Put characters into a 5-dimensional hypercube and search in any direction there, the results will be awesome.
[/quote]

I disagree that the first book, The Bible Code, is not an intentional fake.

All of the matrices in the first book could have been produced by a third grader, equipped with the Bible Code computer program, working backwards as described.

The method works so well, and is so easy, that it is realistically impossible to believe that the book is not fraud.

Did you ever play that simple card trick where you seem to take a card off the top of the deck, show it to the audience, put it back on top of the deck, tap the top of the deck, and then pick up the first card again – and it’s different?

Which is easier to believe – (1) that you used “magic” to make the card “melt” into the deck, mystically?; or (2) that instead you were holding the cards up carefully when you showed them to the audience, so that two cards looked like one, and you were actually showing them the second card?

the bible code has been disproved simply because they can come up with anything they want it to say.

[quote=AnAtheist]The method itself is not a fake, it simply proves nothing.QUOTE]

Well said!
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Well said:thumbsup:

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