The Case of the Sabbath and Sola Sciptura


#1

I have learned something new. I used to think that only the 7th Day Adventists argued for the Sabbath and now I see that there is another group, 7th Day Baptists doing the same. I have never heard of the latter. It is clear that with the Bible alone there are two groups that argue for the Sabbath while the rest of the Protestant world does not. It is also clear that while arguing for the Sabbath using the Bible alone, or do they as the Adventists admit that Ellen White was a prophet.

In any case if two groups using Scripture argue for the Sabbath and they differ in other respects how could an outside observer agree that Sola Scriptura works.

adventist.org/

Resolution on the Spirit of Prophecy

We, the delegates to the 2010 General Conference Session in Atlanta, Georgia, acknowledge with gratitude the continuing contribution to the Seventh-day Adventist Church found in the writings and ministry of Ellen G White. We are witnesses to how the Church has been blessed and guided by God through the inspired counsel of His messenger. Her counsels exalt the Bible as the Word of God, lift up Jesus as Creator and Redeemer of the world, and encourage a life of service and sacrifice. Her ministry has directly aided in the preservation of unity in the Church and its expanding global outreach.

The gift of prophecy, like the other spiritual gifts, is to bring about unity, equip God's people for the work of ministry, build up the body of Christ, protect it from being deceived by false doctrine, and foster individual and collective spiritual growth (Ephesians 4:11-15). We recognize in Ellen G White the gift of prophecy, and affirm that as this gift is valued and its instruction heeded, the Church prospers.

Consequently, we express our gratitude to God for His gracious gift in the prophetic ministry of Ellen G White. We call upon Seventh-day Adventists everywhere to prayerfully study her messages and benefit from the inspiration and instruction found there. We encourage the teachers and administrators of our educational institutions and the leaders of our health-care facilities and publishing houses to review her counsels for their areas of service. We urge pastors to make use of these writings in their sermon preparation and in their planning with the members for the mission of their churches. We appeal to Church administrators at every level to exert their influence in affirming the importance of these writings for the Church and to continue efforts to make these writings available to church members at affordable cost. And we affirm our commitment to "believe His prophets" (2 Chronicles 20:20), that we may prosper in fulfilling our mission to the world and thus

hasten the coming of Jesus.

seventhdaybaptist.org/

washingtonsdb.org/a_comparison_of_seventh_day_bapt.htm

There is a tendency for many people to confuse Seventh Day Baptists with the much larger, but also much younger Seventh-day Adventists. Although there is agreement in some areas, there are considerable differences in others, both historical and theological.

Seventh Day Baptists trace their origin to the mid-seventeenth century separatist movement in England. Emphasizing the importance of a Scriptural basis for doctrine and practice, some Baptists concluded that the keeping of the seventh day Sabbath was an inescapable requirement for biblical Christianity. In America, the first Seventh Day Baptist Church began when the study of the Scriptures caused others to come to the same conclusion and thus withdraw from their non-Sabbath keeping Baptist brethren in 1671. Though there were eventually leaders among the early Seventh Day Baptists, the movement was not founded upon the writings or leadership of any single person. Even today, Seventh Day Baptists recognize no authoritative leaders or prophets.

The Protestant world that uses Sola Scriptura does not adhere to the Sabbath as proposed here nor does the Protestant world agree with the prophesy of Ellen White. It appears to me that this is a case of failure of Sola Scriptura.

What thinkest thou?:)


#2

[quote="CopticChristian, post:1, topic:293904"]
I have learned something new. I used to think that only the 7th Day Adventists argued for the Sabbath and now I see that there is another group, 7th Day Baptists doing the same. I have never heard of the latter. It is clear that with the Bible alone there are two groups that argue for the Sabbath while the rest of the Protestant world does not. It is also clear that while arguing for the Sabbath using the Bible alone, or do they as the Adventists admit that Ellen White was a prophet.

In any case if two groups using Scripture argue for the Sabbath and they differ in other respects how could an outside observer agree that Sola Scriptura works.

adventist.org/

hasten the coming of Jesus.

seventhdaybaptist.org/

washingtonsdb.org/a_comparison_of_seventh_day_bapt.htm

The Protestant world that uses Sola Scriptura does not adhere to the Sabbath as proposed here nor does the Protestant world agree with the prophesy of Ellen White. It appears to me that this is a case of failure of Sola Scriptura.

What thinkest thou?:)

[/quote]

Maybe its a failure of Ellen White. Sola scriptura is a practice. Any practice can be misused. Is it a failure of Sacred Tradition that the CC and EO have different conclusions about the Filioque?

Jon


#3

The SDB actually pre-dates the SDA, in a paradoxical turn of events, even if only acronymically (there’s one for ya’) speaking. Both lack the Apostolic Tradition and Magisterium which would clear up their confusion. Both are equally wrong - disagreeing even with each other. So much for bible unity.


#4

Nope. It’s a failure of obedience. Schism always results.


#5

[quote="po18guy, post:4, topic:293904"]
Nope. It's a failure of obedience. Schism always results.

[/quote]

Obedience to what or whom? White would say she is obedient to scripture. Antioch, for example, would say they are to Tradition. All of us say we are obedient to Christ.

My only point when this topic about ss comes up is that division also has happened when humans use Tradition. The problem isn't the method of hermuenetics, but human sin.

Jon


#6

And it shall come in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy." Acts 2:17. WE don't base our doctrine on her at all. What other people need to understand,we believed God gave her visions but never depart from the word of God.When we go to church we READ and study the Bible and the Bible only.When you keep the Commandments that God Wrote with his own finger and give those Commandments to human kind not just the Jews. That to me is obeying God not men's tradition if you read the whole Bible there's not a single Scripture that says "There's no need to keep the Sabbath anymore you can now start going the first day of the week". If you read the Book of Genesis at the beginning of creation,it says"On the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it" (Genesis 2:2, 3).
"The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God" (Exodus 20:10).s. The Bible Sabbath is actually the seventh day (Saturday) of the week — and not the first (Sunday), as many believe. After making the world, God “rested” on the seventh day and sanctified it for humanity to keep forever. God blessed the Sabbath, and when God blesses something, it is blessed forever (1 Chronicles 17:27) and no man can "reverse it" (Numbers 23:20).If you really want to find out what the real day that God gave us Study the bible and you may surprise yourself. When you use the (SOLA Scripture) only the bible and put your pride and ego to the side and let the Holy Spirit Guide you Fantastic things could happen.When you keeping the Sabbath you are doing it for God and God ALONE. God gave the Sabbath as a sign that He created the world in six 24-hour days and of His power to redeem and sanctify mankind. In Isaiah 58:13, 14, God says all who would be blessed must first get their feet off His Sabbath. Moreover, the deliberate breaking of any one of the Ten Commandments is a sin. Christians should gladly follow Christ's example of Sabbath-keeping. Jesus’ custom was to worship on Sabbath, as well as His apostles. See Luke 4:16. Again The Bible speaks for itself. I was not Raised SDA, I was Baptist all my life I went to Church on Sunday, like every other person was. Until I meet my Wife about ten Years ago she told me about the Sabbath I was determined to show her wrong that she has been going to church the wrong day,so the more I study the Bible the more I found my self with out an answer the Sabbath kept coming to the surface so I even ask my Pastor at that time and to my big surprise he told me "Well I hate to tell you this but she is right about the Sabbath.The change happened so many centuries ago that eventually it is what it is now the Majority of the people go on Sunday.Then I felt more obligated that ever to find out HOW THIS HAPPENED and why??? I was Still not Convinced that I had to go to Church on Saturday Like God says. Finally I found the reason why and who did it.I'm not going to tell you who and when. That's another whole topic I much rather let you do your own research on that. All I know now that I'm doing what GOD told me to do and following his example and not just the Sabbath keeping but the other nine Commandments as well.Hope that this will inspire you.Just remember God talks about the Sabbath even in the New Earth.The Bible also says: "If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).
"To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (James 4:17).
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life” (Revelation 22:14).See here ?GOD is telling us talking to us that if you Love GOD you will keep all his Commandments.Friends it's not hard to listen when you love someone.All God is asking us to do to obey him and love him.It's that too much to ask? GOD bless you all.:thumbsup:


#7

[quote="po18guy, post:3, topic:293904"]
Both are equally wrong - disagreeing even with each other. So much for bible unity.

[/quote]

Said the guy who belongs to a church that is in schism.


#8

[quote="funny4god, post:6, topic:293904"]
And it shall come in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy." Acts 2:17. WE don't base our doctrine on her at all. What other people need to understand,we believed God gave her visions but never depart from the word of God.When we go to church we READ and study the Bible and the Bible only.When you keep the Commandments that God Wrote with his own finger and give those Commandments to human kind not just the Jews. That to me is obeying God not men's tradition if you read the whole Bible there's not a single Scripture that says "There's no need to keep the Sabbath anymore you can now start going the first day of the week". If you read the Book of Genesis at the beginning of creation,it says"On the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it" (Genesis 2:2, 3).
"The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God" (Exodus 20:10).s. The Bible Sabbath is actually the seventh day (Saturday) of the week — and not the first (Sunday), as many believe. After making the world, God “rested” on the seventh day and sanctified it for humanity to keep forever. God blessed the Sabbath, and when God blesses something, it is blessed forever (1 Chronicles 17:27) and no man can "reverse it" (Numbers 23:20).If you really want to find out what the real day that God gave us Study the bible and you may surprise yourself. When you use the (SOLA Scripture) only the bible and put your pride and ego to the side and let the Holy Spirit Guide you Fantastic things could happen.When you keeping the Sabbath you are doing it for God and God ALONE. God gave the Sabbath as a sign that He created the world in six 24-hour days and of His power to redeem and sanctify mankind. In Isaiah 58:13, 14, God says all who would be blessed must first get their feet off His Sabbath. Moreover, the deliberate breaking of any one of the Ten Commandments is a sin. Christians should gladly follow Christ's example of Sabbath-keeping. Jesus’ custom was to worship on Sabbath, as well as His apostles. See Luke 4:16. Again The Bible speaks for itself. I was not Raised SDA, I was Baptist all my life I went to Church on Sunday, like every other person was. Until I meet my Wife about ten Years ago she told me about the Sabbath I was determined to show her wrong that she has been going to church the wrong day,so the more I study the Bible the more I found my self with out an answer the Sabbath kept coming to the surface so I even ask my Pastor at that time and to my big surprise he told me "Well I hate to tell you this but she is right about the Sabbath.The change happened so many centuries ago that eventually it is what it is now the Majority of the people go on Sunday.Then I felt more obligated that ever to find out HOW THIS HAPPENED and why??? I was Still not Convinced that I had to go to Church on Saturday Like God says. Finally I found the reason why and who did it.I'm not going to tell you who and when. That's another whole topic I much rather let you do your own research on that. All I know now that I'm doing what GOD told me to do and following his example and not just the Sabbath keeping but the other nine Commandments as well.Hope that this will inspire you.Just remember God talks about the Sabbath even in the New Earth.The Bible also says: "If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).
"To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (James 4:17).
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life” (Revelation 22:14).See here ?GOD is telling us talking to us that if you Love GOD you will keep all his Commandments.Friends it's not hard to listen when you love someone.All God is asking us to do to obey him and love him.It's that too much to ask? GOD bless you all.:thumbsup:

[/quote]

Why would I cling to the Law of Moses? If I'd think that is the way to salvation I'll just find a rabbi to circumcise me and then I'd stop eating pork.


#9

[quote="Sixpence, post:7, topic:293904"]
Said the guy who belongs to a church that is in schism.

[/quote]

And you are? Where did your church come from? Did it not result from disobedience of Martin Luther? And what does the bible say about disobedience.....look at 1 Sam 15 verse 22-23.


#10

[quote="pablope, post:9, topic:293904"]
And you are? Where did your church come from? Did it not result from disobedience of Martin Luther? And what does the bible say about disobedience.....look at 1 Sam 15 verse 22-23.

[/quote]

Luther? Indirectly. More directly, it has non-sectarian origins.


#11

[quote="JonNC, post:5, topic:293904"]
Obedience to what or whom? White would say she is obedient to scripture. Antioch, for example, would say they are to Tradition. All of us say we are obedient to Christ.

My only point when this topic about ss comes up is that division also has happened when humans use Tradition. The problem isn't the method of hermuenetics, but human sin.

Jon

[/quote]

It is absolutely clear from scripture that Jesus established an ultimate authority on earth, and left someone in charge of that Church. Councils were held to determine or clarify doctrinal matters. Human sin is the problem - but only when it acts through willful disobedience to the Church that Christ founded. The problem arises when that authority is rejected. When we desire to reject authority, we will fabricate "reasons" or justifications for our disobedience. That does not mean that we are living in a state of reality, but rather that we are justifying our disobedience out of defensiveness. We have done that with our parents, and with each and every figure placed over us, including Him who always was.


#12

[quote="Sixpence, post:10, topic:293904"]
Luther? Indirectly. More directly, it has non-sectarian origins.

[/quote]

Right...from Luther...not from any apostle....whether directly or indirectly...it came from the result of disobedience:

2 But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”

So....following form the passage above...how can you now justifiably say your religion is from Christ? How can you be sure what is being taught in your church is not without error?

How do you fulfill this passage:

from 1John 4.....6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.


#13

That's a good point Coptic - also the S.D.A.'s preach a creature Christ doctrine and the S.d. Baptists reject that as heretical error yet both claim sola scriptura.


#14

Anyway, the SDA, SDB, LDS, JW, BRLXQ and every single one of the innumerable other heretical sects all use the 66 book bible. Coincidence? I don't think so.


#15

[quote="JonNC, post:5, topic:293904"]
Antioch, for example, would say they are to Tradition.

[/quote]

Well, some of Antioch is obedient to Rome :D


#16

[quote="po18guy, post:14, topic:293904"]
Anyway, the SDA, SDB, LDS, JW, BRLXQ and every single one of the innumerable other heretical sects all use the 66 book bible. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[/quote]

Guy,

It would be safe to say that you go to Church on Saturday, but not as a rule and reserve the option to go to Church on Sunday, is that correct?


#17

[quote="CopticChristian, post:16, topic:293904"]
Guy,

It would be safe to say that you go to Church on Saturday, but not as a rule and reserve the option to go to Church on Sunday, is that correct?

[/quote]

I have gone to Saturday vigil mass, but Sunday has been it for some time now. Saturday vigil is equally valid, but is not a Jewish sabbath, nor does it pretend to be. It is the vigil mass for the Lord's day of Sunday. The SDA hold to the Jewish (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday) sabbath, while disregarding all of the rest of the Mosaic law.

Have you read the applicable catechism sections? It explains the Sunday worship quite well. The SDA, as all adventist groups (Mormons and JW among them) are wrong on so many things, that I see this as a complete non-issue. What I do see is that a spirit was moving among believers in 19th century America, and found fertile ground for division.


#18

[quote="po18guy, post:11, topic:293904"]
It is absolutely clear from scripture that Jesus established an ultimate authority on earth, and left someone in charge of that Church. Councils were held to determine or clarify doctrinal matters. Human sin is the problem - but only when it acts through willful disobedience to the Church that Christ founded. The problem arises when that authority is rejected. When we desire to reject authority, we will fabricate "reasons" or justifications for our disobedience. That does not mean that we are living in a state of reality, but rather that we are justifying our disobedience out of defensiveness. We have done that with our parents, and with each and every figure placed over us, including Him who always was.

[/quote]

Po,
None of those early councils set out one see as having universal jurisdiction. The problem is that authority, where it is and how that authority is rendered has been in question for a thousand years.

Jon


#19

[quote="Pythons, post:13, topic:293904"]
That's a good point Coptic - also the S.D.A.'s preach a creature Christ doctrine and the S.d. Baptists reject that as heretical error yet both claim sola scriptura.

[/quote]

Hi. Many members of my family are SDAs. I thought that I knew what they believe about Christ. Where can I read that they preach a creature Christ? Do you mean the doctrine that some Adventists teach ie Christ and the Archangel Michael are the same?

Annie


#20

Since Eden man has rejected authority. I wonder how the search for truth is aided by division and disobedience. We do not determine truth, we seek it and subject ourselves to it. Either one Church is true or all are false, as truth is One.


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