Please refute this vague but common assertion. (Use philosophical and logical arguments, not theology.)
why bother? God reveals His truth through His Son Jesus Christ, who founded the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church in order to preserve and teach that truth. They don’t believe God’s promise, God’s Word, God’s Son they ain’t going to believe me.
Anyone who makes this claim is themselves closed-minded.
Clever comments aside, is there any evidence to back up their claim?
Vague assertions that have no substance don’t deserve serious response. How about a simple, “So?”
– Mark L. Chance.
I’d first ask what it means for the Church to be close-minded and judgemental, then ask for the evidence that the Church is close-minded and judgemental, and then ask why it would be wrong for the Church to be close-minded and judgemental. I think the answers, the assumptions and the errors you’d get back would give you plenty to work with.
Better to be closed minded than have your mind so open that your brains fall out!
Because I’m trying to convince two of my secular humanist friends otherwise.
It strikes me that THEY are also “closed minded”, but from a different perspective.
I knew I had read that somewhere!
It just goes to show that your sig is very catchy!
Being a Catholic college student, I hear this all the time. Guys in my hall are always telling me that the Church is close-minded and that I need to open my mind, explore new possibilities. So I ask them, “Do you believe Mary was born without sin and conceived Christ as a virgin and remained a virgin her whole life?” Every response is the same. “No, that’s impossible. She’s human, there’s no way she can be born without sin. She had to have had sexual relations with Joseph.” I tell them, “Don’t be so close-minded, open your mind to the possibilities! The Church does believe this!” They walk away. Just tell people this and make them realize that their argument is moot.
Actually, in comparison to denominations that have determined that they can change the deposit of the faith, she is humble, not close-minded and judgemental.
If a group decides that it can change and modify its principles, according to the trends and temper of the times, it may well act (or deliberately decline to act) in a manner that leaves it open to these accusations. However, the Church does not presume to change or modify what she has been given by her founder. This is not closed-mindedness or judgementalism, but the humble acceptance of her situation of having no power to make changes or modifications to the deposit of the faith.
This all flows from the fact that the Church does not proclaim what she herself has determined or made up, but only what she has been given. Indeed, it she were the author of what she proclaims, she might well be open to the accusations. But she did not, and so she is not.
Good for you.
The people who claim the Church is close minded and judgemental are usually talking about abortion, practicing homosexuality, civil unions, contraception, legalization of drugs, euthanasia, physician assisted suicide, the right to die, etc. They want the Church to be open minded to sin! I would simply say that maybe a truly free and open mind would recognize these things are intrinsically evil, and how can you be absolutely sure that you are the one with the open mind?
I’d ask for examples and reasoning as to why?
Is this from a discussion with an atheist?
They are “material” atheists, not “formal atheists.” In other words, on a survey form if asked they might say that they believe in a God,but in life they don’t act like they believed in God.
Please keep in mind that this is not an atheism issue. The people with whom I am dealing claim to be GOOD CATHOLICS.
I think you have to give us a statement or two…the subject is just too broad. In general I would say the church is cautious about change of any kind, and that’s logical and probably correct. Too much in this world is of passing fancy. The Church has maintained itself primarily I would suggest but not giving in to every new idea. It has lent stability many times in history when all around was chaos and governments fell. During the “dark ages” it with a few others (Jews and Muslims) retained virtually all of learning and education in its monasteries.
I would admit that the Church in its role of protector of the faithful, sometimes has underestimated the ability of laity to rightly understand the competing interests, and thus has held back sometimes to its detriment.
All in all, its obviously done something right. It remains the longest and oldest institution on this planet.
Really? That’s pretty sad. Sounds like they want to justify themselves.
I wonder if they have considered whether there is such a thing as truth?
If there is such a thing as objective/absolute truth, they err, because the church’s position on things is based upon that concept and therefore to say they are closed minded and/or judgmental is incorrect since they merely stand for truth.
Their position (your opponent’s) is weak in that it is based on a moral relativity that does not in fact exist, but which they appear to wish existed.