The Chaldean Catholic Church and the Nestorian Teachers


#1

I found the following questions on another forum and wanted to ask the same questions here in the hope of getting better/clearer answers here.

1) Does the RCC allow the Chaldean Catholic Church to venerate the Nestorian Teachers like Theodore of Mopsuestia, Diodore of Tarsus, and Nestorius of Constantinople?

2) Also, do Chaldean Catholics confess the twelve anathemas of St. Cyril?

3) On a side note, does the RCC allow the Coptic and Syriac Catholic Churches to venerate the Miaphysite Teachers like Severus of Antioch, Dioscorus of Alexandria, Timothy Aelurus, and Philoxenus of Mabbug?


#2
  1. No. There is no reason to venerate teachers of Nestorian doctrine, as their beliefs directly contradict the councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon. Another interesting note is the Assyrian Church of the East also does not believe in everything these men had professed, as the accepted theology of Mar Babai the Great dictates that Christ has two qnome (natures) united in one parsopa (person).

  2. No. Nor does the Assyrian Church of the East.

On a side note, did you find this same question on another forum?
orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=46033.0


#3

Thank you for your reply.

Yes. As I mentioned above.

Basically, I had very similar questions in mind and thought the way it was worded there was pretty good so I basically copied and pasted it. Like I said, I found the questions on another forum and wanted to ask the same questions here in the hope of getting better/clearer answers here.


#4

Do you know what Anaphoras the Chaldean Catholic Church uses?

From what I understand, the Assyrian Church of East use the Anaphora of Nestorius, the Anaphora ofTheodore of Mopsuestia and the Anaphora of Addai and Mari. this is my understanding from Guidelines for admission to the Eucharist between the Chaldean Church and the Assyrian Church of the East

I assume the Chaldean Catholic Church uses different Anaphoras?


#5

I know that the only Anaphora or Liturgy currently used by both the Chaldean Catholic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East is the one according to Mar Addai and Mar Mari. I do believe that the Anaphoras of Nestorius or Theodore are majorly identical to the one of Addai and Mari but with modifications according to the seasons or feasts. I’m not sure if those two are used any longer by the Church of the East however.


#6

[quote="LookingForHome, post:1, topic:294162"]
3) On a side note, does the RCC allow the Coptic and Syriac Catholic Churches to venerate the Miaphysite Teachers like Severus of Antioch, Dioscorus of Alexandria, Timothy Aelurus, and Philoxenus of Mabbug?

[/quote]

Yes, especially in the Syriac liturgy. The canon of the Fathers and Docters of the Church says:

"Again, we commemorate those who have gone before, fallen asleep in holiness, and are at rest among the saints; those who have kept the one apostolic faith without blemish and entrusted it to us. We proclaim the three sacred and holy Ecumenical Synods of Nicaea, of Constantinople and of Ephesus. We also remember our glorious and God-fearing fathers, prelates and doctors present at the Synods. Bishop James, the first bishop of Jerusalem, the apostles and martyrs and the saints: Ignatius, Clement, Dionysius, Athanasius, Julius, Basilius, Gregorius, **Dioscoros, **Timothy, **Philoxenus, Antemus, Ivanius. Particularly, St. Cyril that exalted and firm tower who declared and made manifest the incarnation of the Word God, our Lord Jesus Christ Who took flesh. **We also remember our Patriarch St. Severus, the crown of the Syrians, that rational mouth, pillar and teacher of all the Holy Church of God;* and our saintly and holy father St. Jacob Burd`ono the supporter of the orthodox faith and St. Ephrem, St. Jacob, St. Isaac, St. Balai, St. Barsaumo, head of the anchorites, St. Simon the Stylite and the chosen St. Abhai. Let us, also, remember all those before them, with them and after them, who kept the one, true and uncorrupted faith and delivered it to us. May their prayers be a stronghold to us. Let us beseech the Lord."*

However, unlike the Nestorian teachers Theodore of Mopsuestia, Nestorius and Diodore the Fathers mentioned in the Syriac anaphora were all orthodox.


#7

Credo Ergo Sum, would you kindly share a link to that canon so that we can read the quoted portion within the context of the larger document? This idea is very interesting to me, as I remember there have been other threads here on CAF that seemed to come to the conclusion that miaphysitism and Catholicism are essentially not compatible (I frankly do not see how it could be otherwise, but am not very well versed in how Rome resolves such things as multiple Christologies within one communion, as that is of course not the norm, historically speaking).


#8

Here. I read on wikipedia (yeah, bad source, I know) that the Syriac Catholics used the same liturgy.

I wonder if Catholics confess the 12 anathemas.


#9

[quote="Credo_ergo_sum, post:8, topic:294162"]
Here. I read on wikipedia (yeah, bad source, I know) that the Syriac Catholics used the same liturgy.

[/quote]

I have no clue (I have only seen the Liturgy of St. James as the Syriac Orthodox use it), but I could find no mention of any of the specific holy fathers of the Miaphysite Orthodox confession mentioned in the quote from your post in this Syriac Catholic source, which is the first thing that comes up when searching Google for "Syriac Catholic liturgy". Hmm. I wonder if we have any Syriac Catholics here who could clear this up.


#10

[quote="dzheremi, post:9, topic:294162"]
I have no clue (I have only seen the Liturgy of St. James as the Syriac Orthodox use it), but I could find no mention of any of the specific holy fathers of the Miaphysite Orthodox confession mentioned in the quote from your post in this Syriac Catholic source, which is the first thing that comes up when searching Google for "Syriac Catholic liturgy". Hmm. I wonder if we have any Syriac Catholics here who could clear this up.

[/quote]

It doesn't seem to be the entire liturgy. There is no mention of any Father at all, miaphysite or not.


#11

Hmm. The plot thickens, I suppose. When I return to my home state in a few weeks, I’ll have to check my copy of Attwater’s “Eastern Catholic Worship”, which has a translation of the Syriac Catholic liturgy as it would have been c. 1945, to see what the full liturgy looks like.


#12

[quote="dzheremi, post:11, topic:294162"]
Hmm. The plot thickens, I suppose. When I return to my home state in a few weeks, I'll have to check my copy of Attwater's "Eastern Catholic Worship", which has a translation of the Syriac Catholic liturgy as it would have been c. 1945, to see what the full liturgy looks like.

[/quote]

I really doubt we'd get much further then. In 1945 it would have probably been heavily latinised with mentions of Chalcedon interpolated. I think that today the liturgy is hugely different than it was 70 years ago. Do we even have a Syriac Catholic here?


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