The Church being attacked from within?


#1

After reading a story in the paper about a supposed theologian teaching contrary to Catholic teachings at a Catholic University, and then reading topics about the Church bein attacked from within, I began to wonder how big of a problem it really is. Do you think that some become memebers just for the purpose of driving them away?

I used to brush these thougts off as over paranoia, but after finding this thread on another message board in the “Christian” section, I began to wonder:

libertynewsforum.com/libertynewsforumcgi/YaBB/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=Christian;action=display;num=1112982425;start=0#0

It’s on page two.

Be warned however, this site has some staunce anti-Catholics, one in particular that argues like a three year old.

It would be a good place to brush up on your Apologetics skills as well, if you have a lot of patience. More than me anyway…


#2

Not to drive others away. The Catholic Church has more influence than any other institution in the world. These people salivate at the idea of using the Church to promote their agenda.


#3

I want to show you all something I have from an anti-Catholic book, and it describes Catholics as falling into the following categories:

(a very condensed version of what is actually written)

nominal or social … born into or married into the Church. Uncommitted, and have little knowledge. Basically, Catholic by name only.

Syncretistic-eclectic … combined or absorbed by pagan religion (to varying degrees) according to culture e.g. South American or African.

Traditional or Orthodox … the most powerful and conservative. Rejects Vatican II, etc. I think everyone here need not an explanation.

Moderate… the Catholics of post Vatican II. not entirely traditional, not entirely Liberal.

Modernist, liberal Catholic… the post Vatican II “progressive” that rejects Traditional doctrine.

Ethnic or Cultural… often retained by migrants to America who use thier religion “to provide a sense of belonging”.

Lapsed or apostate Catholic… alienated backslidden, or apostates indifferent to the Church and God.

Charismatic… seeks baptism in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, and other spiritual gifts.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE DIFFERENCES TO THE NEXT TWO.

“Evangelical” Catholics: former protestant converted to Rome, who may retain some of their former beliefs but who now accept Roman Catholocism. as the one true church and it’s doctrines are authoritative.

Evangelical “Catholics”: former Roman Catholics who are truly evangelical and who have rejected the teachings of Rome, often deciding to remain in the Church to help reform it or as a means to evangelize other Catholics. In large measure these persons are no longer Catholics.




So, you can see, there are some Catholics (so called) that remain in the church with the intentions of leaving, but first wanting to take some WITH them.


#4

[quote=♥LoveAngel♥]I want to show you all something I have from an anti-Catholic book, and it describes Catholics as falling into the following categories:

(a very condensed version of what is actually written)

nominal or social … born into or married into the Church. Uncommitted, and have little knowledge. Basically, Catholic by name only.

Syncretistic-eclectic … combined or absorbed by pagan religion (to varying degrees) according to culture e.g. South American or African.

Traditional or Orthodox … the most powerful and conservative. Rejects Vatican II, etc. I think everyone here need not an explanation.

Moderate… the Catholics of post Vatican II. not entirely traditional, not entirely Liberal.

Modernist, liberal Catholic… the post Vatican II “progressive” that rejects Traditional doctrine.

Ethnic or Cultural… often retained by migrants to America who use thier religion “to provide a sense of belonging”.

Lapsed or apostate Catholic… alienated backslidden, or apostates indifferent to the Church and God.

Charismatic… seeks baptism in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, and other spiritual gifts.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE DIFFERENCES TO THE NEXT TWO.

“Evangelical” Catholics: former protestant converted to Rome, who may retain some of their former beliefs but who now accept Roman Catholocism. as the one true church and it’s doctrines are authoritative.

Evangelical “Catholics”: former Roman Catholics who are truly evangelical and who have rejected the teachings of Rome, often deciding to remain in the Church to help reform it or as a means to evangelize other Catholics. In large measure these persons are no longer Catholics.

So, you can see, there are some Catholics (so called) that remain in the church with the intentions of leaving, but first wanting to take some WITH them.
[/quote]

Strange. There’s no category for all of us who believe in all the teachings of the Church. Hmmmm…


#5

You have to keep in mind, that I noted in the beginning of my post, that this was taken from an anti-catholic book.

I understand where you would feel a little confused at the list. This is not coming from one of us that know better. That important thing with this list, is, that yes there are people who stay in our beloved church and wish to do harm to our family.


#6

[quote=♥LoveAngel♥]You have to keep in mind, that I noted in the beginning of my post, that this was taken from an anti-catholic book.

I understand where you would feel a little confused at the list. This is not coming from one of us that know better. That important thing with this list, is, that yes there are people who stay in our beloved church and wish to do harm to our family.
[/quote]

Hahaha, I know, I was trying to be a little sarcastic. :smiley:


#7

[quote=Chris G]After reading a story in the paper about a supposed theologian teaching contrary to Catholic teachings at a Catholic University, and then reading topics about the Church bein attacked from within, I began to wonder how big of a problem it really is. Do you think that some become memebers just for the purpose of driving them away?

I used to brush these thougts off as over paranoia, but after finding this thread on another message board in the “Christian” section, I began to wonder:

libertynewsforum.com/libertynewsforumcgi/YaBB/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=Christian;action=display;num=1112982425;start=0#0

It’s on page two.

Be warned however, this site has some staunce anti-Catholics, one in particular that argues like a three year old.

It would be a good place to brush up on your Apologetics skills as well, if you have a lot of patience. More than me anyway…
[/quote]

I would think that he majority of people who come into the Church do so wanting to legitimately serve God. However, each enters with preconceived opinions on how to accomplish this. Some bring science in with them, others logic, still others bring a personally held belief of the concept of what good and evil is. They bring these things in with them because they come in from society and society is made up of all kinds of people believing in all kinds of beliefs. Once they’re in the Church, it is hard to put aside everything that they believed prior to entering, so they compromise on the issues that conflict with their life’s experiences and cling to the ideas and beliefs that have no conflicts. This is why you have so many “cafeteria style” Catholics who lay claim to being Catholic yet support contraception, homosexuality and some who even see nothing wrong with abortion. Satan uses those “life experiences and held beliefs” to take away from God’s Church. There have been dissenters throughout history, but today you hear more about them and their beliefs for two reasons. First, because of modernism. If we want to know what is happening in Rome, London, Washington, etc. all we need do is turn on the news, surf the web, read a paper or listen to the radio. When someone who has doubts about a specific teaching of the Church hears that there are Priests or even Bishops within the Church who have given their opinion on the matter and support their questions concerning the belief in question, they become that much more resilient in their opposing view of Church dogma. The second reason is due to the many facets of beliefs in today’s society. Since all the members of the Church enter the Church from society, they enter with many more habits and beliefs that contradict Church teaching.
Now, let me enter here my pre-apology and disclaimer. I do this because I am so very tired of being attacked or argued with by my fellow Catholics and by non-Catholics who enjoy arguing for the sake of elevating themselves above another person’s opinion. This is my opinion. It may be fact or it may simply be my view of things relating to this particular situation. I mean no disrespect to those who do not share my opinion, so there is no need to take offense to it. So, if you disagree with my opinion and feel the need to name call or argue, please do so while your fingers are away from the keyboard. I am perfectly willing to discuss, but I grow weary of the lack of charity and the condescending (implied and/or literal) statements associated with some who post in this forum. Thankfully, the number is small, yet it does exist and it is to those people that I am speaking.


#8

The part that concerns me though, is that apparently, as seen at the site I posted, it is alluded to that some are actually sent into the Church to promote dissention and to get them to leave. (This coupled with what I know about some of the posters there).

All the more reason for us to not let popular opinion change the Church.


#9

[quote=Chris G]The part that concerns me though, is that apparently, as seen at the site I posted, it is alluded to that some are actually sent into the Church to promote dissention and to get them to leave. (This coupled with what I know about some of the posters there).

All the more reason for us to not let popular opinion change the Church.
[/quote]

I agree. There are some that are on my list of 'keep a watch out’
not to mention any names, they work very mischievous way here an there.


#10

The priest at my church gave a homily today based on todays reading:

that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him
may have eternal life,
and I shall raise him on the last day."

He said that it doesn’t say “Those that don’t believe won’t have eteranl life”. I can’t tell you how sick to my stomach I am of Luke warm Catholiscism, especially within the clergy.
FYI - I support a new inquisition. Time to weed out the unbelievers and dissenters.


#11

A vigilant shepherd of Christ’s flock, Pius X discerned what danger for the faith of the Church lay in a way of thinking which appeared towards the end of the 19th century. A group of intellectuals, under the pretense of adaptation to the modern mentality (from which derives the name «Modernists»), got the idea into their heads to radically change the dogmatic and moral teaching of the Church. Determined to remain in the Church so as to more effectively transform Her, they proposed to give her a new Credo and new Commandments, retaining the Catholic vocabulary, but transforming the underlying meaning according to their own ideas. After numerous charitable appeals to the straying sheep, and faced with their obstinacy, Pius X published, on July 3, 1907, the decree Lamentabili, which enumerated the Modernists’ errors. Two months later, the encyclical *Pascendi *explained authoritatively how this system was contrary to sound philosophy and the Catholic faith.
Pascendi:

For as We have said, they put their designs for her ruin into operation not from without but from within

; hence, the danger is present almost in the very veins and heart of the Church, whose injury is the more certain, the more intimate is their knowledge of her. Moreover they lay the axe not to the branches and shoots, but to the very root, that is, to the faith and its deepest fires. And having struck at this root of immortality, they proceed to disseminate poison through the whole tree, so that there is no part of Catholic truth from which they hold their hand, none that they do not strive to corrupt.
So, we see a Sainted Pope having miracles while still the Pope, revealing what was and IS to come…back in 1903-07.


#12

Just remember, the devil will take some over and try to destroy the Church, but the devil shall never prevail.


#13

Also, please note what JPII said in Veritatis Splendor…

In fact, a new situation has come about within the Christian community itself, which has experienced the spread of numerous doubts and objections of a human and psychological, social and cultural, religious and even properly theological nature, with regard to the Church’s moral teachings. It is no longer a matter of limited and occasional dissent, but of an overall and systematic calling into question of traditional moral doctrine, on the basis of certain anthropological and ethical presuppositions. At the root of these presuppositions is the more or less obvious influence of currents of thought which end by detaching human freedom from its essential and constitutive relationship to truth.

Link to Vatican site.

It’s a good read.

Jim.


#14

This is one of the warnings made in Fatima, if I am correct, about those who would try to destroy the Church from within. They’re more dangerous than those who are from without, since they sow dissent and confusion among the faithful.


closed #15

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