"The Church belongs to the rich"


#1

This is what my Spanish lit (more like Let’s Constantly Attack the Church and Be Reaffirmed in Our Disdain for Catholicism through Spanish lit) prof is so very fond of saying, especially in regards to the history of the Church up to and including Franco’s dictatorship in Spain (which, incidentally, I have to PM Franze about… sigh). He claims the Church has always been on the side of the “haves”, among other things… :banghead:

Anyway, how can I address this? *Should *I address it? The class is full of (I suppose) either non-Cath Christians, agnostics, or athiests with at least one other Catholic that I know of, plus a self-proclaimed “anti-Catholic”, and the prof, who is (from what I can gather) a former Catholic turned sour. I’m not too versed in history, so should I start there? Or is there some way that you guys have found works best?

The guy’s also a biiiig fan of liberation theology, subscribes to the “Paul constructed the Church without regards for Christ’s plans” school, just today ridiculed the BVM, and has forgotten about the distinction between the Church and the sinners in the Church… just so you know how hopeless the cause is… :nope:


#2

As usual when presented with a weak argument, it is all words and no substance.

What does it mean, “the Church belongs to the rich?” Does it mean that poor people cannot go to Mass?

Does it mean that the Church neglects Her duty to the poor? Well, exactly WHAT is that duty? Of course, the #1 duty of the Church to the poor (and rich alike) is to provide access to the Sacraments. Are the poor denied these? Do the rich go to the front of the confession line?

As individual Christians, we have a further duty to the poor - to help out our fellow humans. In many ways, the Church helps facilitate this by organizing charitable works. One can name MANY charitable works directed to the poor, sick, orphans, elderly, etc - can anyone name a Church program directed to the betterment of the rich?

Make the guy DEFINE HIS TERMS, and then show how silly he is (in a most loving and charitable manner, of course).


#3

request him politely to provide actual historical documentation for his claims. Part of his job is to place the literature in his historical context so you have a right to insist that this context be conveyed accurately and impartially.


#4

Whenever you have some wacky assertion such as this, clarify what they said by stating what they said in a clear manner.

Like this: “So the Catholic Church has always been on the side of the people who have money?”

Then show how his assertion contradicts the truth by assuming his assertion is correct and stating this.

“Let’s assume your assertion is correct and the Church is primarily interested in generating money, being on the side of the rich and not caring about poor people.”

Take it to it’s extreme and then show how wrong this assertion is.
"So the Catholic Church must be the most poorly run organization in the world since it contradicts its supposed purpose by giving food away, providing education, not charging to get into Church and running orphanages and loosing money by charitable means. "
You can research this and make a stronger arguement than this, this is just a quick 30 second response to try and illustrate how every attack like this is a contradiction.

God Bless
Scylla


#5

Hey Cradle,

I too have to tolerate such anti Catholic propoganda in my lessons, only mine is history - so the teacher actually thinks she is qualified to spread such lies.

Last lesson she implied that the pope was a Nazi and that he made a choice to, rather than believing that he had to as he claims.

She also said that the Catholic church did nothing to try and help Jews during WWII.

How do I deal with it? I simply contradict everything that she says in the essays that I write, including fact to show why she is wrong. - I have had to research the stuff before hand though - start with wikipedia and also the history channel websites.

Other than that, make a polite anonymous letter asking him to stop. If he persists, I would simply go to an authority above him and complain.


#6

[quote=Libero]Hey Cradle,

I too have to tolerate such anti Catholic propoganda in my lessons, only mine is history - so the teacher actually thinks she is qualified to spread such lies.

Last lesson she implied that the pope was a Nazi and that he made a choice to, rather than believing that he had to as he claims.

She also said that the Catholic church did nothing to try and help Jews during WWII.

How do I deal with it? I simply contradict everything that she says in the essays that I write, including fact to show why she is wrong. - I have had to research the stuff before hand though - start with wikipedia and also the history channel websites.

Other than that, make a polite anonymous letter asking him to stop. If he persists, I would simply go to an authority above him and complain.
[/quote]

Wikipedia is an online encycopedia that “anyone can edit” (says so right on their homepage). It is not a reliable source.

Cradle and Libero, thank you both for standing up against the anti-Catholicism you face in class!

God bless.


#7

[quote=Libero]Hey Cradle,She also said that the Catholic church did nothing to try and help Jews during WWII.
[/quote]

An excellent resource for dealing with this is a book called The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis written by a Jewish Rabbi named David Dalin. Hard to argue against the truth of this issue when it comes from Jewish leaders.


#8

Why do I get the feeling that Mother Teresa would not agree with your teacher?


#9

An excellent resource for dealing with this is a book called The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis written by a Jewish Rabbi named David Dalin. Hard to argue against the truth of this issue when it comes from Jewish leaders.

In fact recently on British television there was a show called Pope Pius the Nazi: A myth. It was very good and not only showed how the pope was very active in trying to help jews during WWII, but also why the myths had arisen.

I was rather shocked, it was strange to see something that was defending the church on TV :slight_smile:


#10

Regretfuly the church has a history of supporting the status quo.That often means the establishent and that also means the rich.


#11

Yeah, Tell your Spanish Lit Professor he must be right. And that is why Mother Teresa only served the rich.


#12

Thank you for the replies. It looks like I’ll have to sharpen up on my history!

Please don’t make me out to be something I’m not. I’m a coward and all I do in this class is shake my head, once in a while rolling my eyes or making some kind of exasperated expression or mumbling something. I think I’ll have to avoid confrontation on this and take Libero’s advice of contradicting what he says in my essays… :frowning:

Yes, Mother Teresa’s a great example, but she’s recent, plus she’s a saint (er, saint-to-be…). But, take what JOHNYJ said, how would I address that? Has the Church really supported the status quo and the rich establishment throughout the ages? If so, were there good reasons or was it something that would look like, as my prof would say, “a betrayal of Jesus”?

sigh Why can’t people just leave us alone…


#13

I know how it is to have to put up with a bunch of pinkos on campus. You could beat them silly with the Truth stick and they’d still tell you 2+2=5. Generally speaking, people who have this commie bias against the Church are not going to change their mind because someone in class points out the faults in their arguments. They are the masters of the “ignore all other points and talk louder” style of debate.

If I were you, I’d defend the Church to the best of my ability. Like I said before, it will probably fall on deaf ears but you never know. Defend the Church to the extent that you are able. You’d be amazed at how people respond to the single guy (or gal) taking a stand for the Church and actually making coherent arguments or comments. You don’t have to be a master theologian, I doubt the other side is the end all and be all of “Liberation Theology” style anti-Catholicism.

I know that I am better at writing than speaking, so I’d definately take on the professor on paper.

Now, how to respond to such comments. Let us take JonnyJ’s post for example. This is how I’d read it if such a comment was made in one of my classes:

He gives no examples or support for his assertion. He merely gives a sound bite that tries to elicit a visceral response. It is often difficult to respond to such a comment without other people straight away assuming that you hate the poor and want them dead-which of course is the point of a emotional statement. The use of such a statement often times seeks to paint the user’s opponent as uncaring or without compassion.

Regretfuly the church has a history of supporting the status quo.That often means the establishent and that also means the rich.

Is the status quo always bad? No. Care to give us an example of how the Church is an oppressor?


#14

Please don’t make me out to be something I’m not. I’m a coward and all I do in this class is shake my head, once in a while rolling my eyes or making some kind of exasperated expression or mumbling something. I think I’ll have to avoid confrontation on this and take Libero’s advice of contradicting what he says in my essays…

Oh I am just the same, but dont worry, words are the most effective “weapon” here. :slight_smile:


#15

[quote=Mijoy2]Yeah, Tell your Spanish Lit Professor he must be right. And that is why Mother Teresa only served the rich.
[/quote]

But, when she got sick, she went to the best western medicine available. It was a wise decision.


#16

[quote=Cradle]Thank you for the replies. It looks like I’ll have to sharpen up on my history!

Please don’t make me out to be something I’m not. I’m a coward and all I do in this class is shake my head, once in a while rolling my eyes or making some kind of exasperated expression or mumbling something. I think I’ll have to avoid confrontation on this and take Libero’s advice of contradicting what he says in my essays… :frowning:

Yes, Mother Teresa’s a great example, but she’s recent, plus she’s a saint (er, saint-to-be…). But, take what JOHNYJ said, how would I address that? Has the Church really supported the status quo and the rich establishment throughout the ages? If so, were there good reasons or was it something that would look like, as my prof would say, “a betrayal of Jesus”?

sigh Why can’t people just leave us alone…
[/quote]

My dear Cradle,
Take their persecution as a compliment and as an affirmation of the Truth of the Catholic Church. If we didn’t have the Truth…they wouldn’t bother. Remember, Jesus told us that we would be persecuted in his name… This doesn’t mean that you have to put up with it though. I would graciously tell your teacher that you are offended by his/her disparaging comments about the Church and the BVM. If the teacher can’t stop making the comments you will be forced to approach a higher authority about it (principal, dean, etc…) and see if that helps. However be prepared to document every offensive thing that is said with dates and times and quotes.


#17

I wouldn’t get into a “defending the Church” thing in class or else your class on literature will degenerate into a Catholic bashing class with all the atheists, agnostics and anti-cathoics ganging up on you and your defense. I would stay after class and politely ask him to refrain from the accusatory remarks. If he feels the need to make the remarks to put the subject into perspective then ask him to please supply the unbiased historical documentation to back up his statements or simple leave off the remarks altogether.

Try to explain that it’s really unfair of him to attack the Church as he does. He, unfortunately, has fallen victim to the same lies and misunderstandings that were perpetuated in the 15 and 1600’s by people who’s intent was to make the Church out to be evil when the opposite was actually true. It just shows his historical ignorance in the actual facts - he hasn’t done his homework.

He doesn’t make remarks about the sad state of Protestantism in the 16th and 17th centuries or the Salem witch hunts, or the Protestant slaughter of Catholics and Catholic priests in Eurpoe, does he? Every denomination has had it’s bad stuff but he doesn’t mention anybody elses dirty laundry, does he? Then why should he have free reign to bash the Catholic Church without unbiased proof - of which there is none.

If it’s going to be a “truth or fiction about Catholicism class,” then fine, but this a literature class and his comments and accusations are out of line. There are plenty of profs that can teach literature without bashing the Church. If he blows you off or ridicules you then take it to the Dean of Students and ask them to make him stop.


#18

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