The Church outlawed reading the bible, & owning it!


#1

Okay, I talked with my Mormon acquaintance today, and he said that the Church outlawed the bible, and forbade anyone to own it…:rolleyes: We’ve had this discussion before, and I explained how before the invention of the Printing press every bible had to be transcribed by hand. I told him how bibles were chained down to prevent theft. And I told him about the Douai-Rheims New Testament being printed in 1582. I don’t think I gave the a proper date for the printing press but I may have said 15th century (fourteen hundreds) or maybe 1500s (although I don’t think I was trying to deceive him). In any case - can anyone supply more information. I know that there are sources of letters asking priests to preach the homily in the “rustic french language” or something to that effect, and I also know that there were some early anglo-saxon translations done by the Church, but I need more precise dates. Also I would value it if anyone could help me out with defending the Church’s censorship of corrupted versions of the bible. I mean I feel that some must have been pretty bad - any help in this regard would also be appreciated.

Thanks,
Catholig


#2

I read Where we got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did restrict the public by reading erroneous translation of the Bible. As you know in the early days of the printing press, it wasn’t perfect. Translating the Bible to a venacular form is very pains taking. There were those who translated the Bible but had mistranslated the Scripture.

If you want more details visit this link:

angelfire.com/ms/seanie/deuteros/graham14.html

angelfire.com/ms/seanie/deuteros/graham_contents.html


#3

I’ve argued this issue so many times that I can do it on autopilot. That’s not a good thing — it shows how common this claim is.

Start by narrowing the accusation.

“The Church”? The whole worldwide Catholic Church did this, not just a particular province or country or area? That would require either (a) a statement from an ecumenical council; or (b) a pope’s order. Ask your friend what specific document from a pope or an ecumenical council “banned the Bible.” No such document exists.

If your friend digs deeper, he’ll come back to you by naming “The Council of Toulouse.” The Catholic Church has had 21 ecumenical councils, none of which was held at Toulouse. There was a synod, a meeting of Bishops, in Toulouse (France) and those bishops had jurisdiction only over their own territory, not the whole Catholic Church (non-Catholics can overlook the difference between an ecumenical council and a local council). So now we’ve narrowed the first part of the allegation from “The Catholic Church” to “some French bishops.”

Next, what exactly was banned at The Council of Toulouse? Copies of the Scriptures in the romance languages. You could still own a Bible, you just couldn’t own a translation in a romance language (such as French). Why? Because Gnostic heretics had circulated false “Bibles” in the romance languages and the Bishops didn’t want their cult to spread. This leads into your second point:

Jehovah’s Witnesses have a corrupt Bible translation called the New World Bible which renders John 1:1 as: “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was a god.” Rather than the actual language, which says, “…and the word was God.” It changes Scriptures’ words to fit their beliefs. Suppose a clergyman told his congregation not to read this falsified “Bible.” Would that censorship be acceptable? Sure — he’s trying to protect his flock from reading a phony Bible and being led astray by the forged text. That is precisely what the Toulouse Bishops did. They told their flock not to read the phony “Bibles.” What’s wrong with that?

Meanwhile:

– anyone in Toulouse could still walk into a Catholic Church and read the Bible (presuming they were literate) because the Bibles remained available to the public inside the church buildings, as you state above;

– Catholic monks and scribes continued to make copies of the Bible for Catholic believers;

– Scripture continued to be read aloud in pulblic at evey Catholic Mass, just like it is now, 365 days per year in churches around the globe. Why would the Church read aloud from a book they supposedly were “banning?”

It’s worth adding that the Catechism of the Catholic Church encourages frequent Bible reading. “The Church forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.” CCC 133.

Also, Bible reading is an indulgenced activity in the Catholic Church. Indulgences are determined by the Vatican. Why would the pope reward an activity that suppossedly was outlawed?


#4

This is an interesting question for a Mormon to bring up. When they send their young adults out to evangelize, aren’t they prohibited from reading anything anyone gives them, or am I confusing them with the Jehovah Witnesses?

If it’s the Mormons, wouldn’t your friends question be a little hypocritical?


#5

Here’s a good article on New Advent:

newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm


#6

While doing a google search I found this website, which misrepresents the words and context of a statement made by Pope Innocent the III as can be seen from reading the Latin/French edition of enchiridion symbolorum found here. I can for instance peace together the fact that a group of laity and women were translating scripture in secret, and teaching it in secret. That they were possibly forming their own “clergy”, but I would rather be able to read it in English - no matter how protestant that sounds. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

Can anyone help me out finding an english edition online?

Catholig


#7

Gamera, I know what you’re saying is the truth, but can you provide some sources so that I could show him?

Thanks,
Catholig


#8

website, which misrepresents the words and context of a statement made by Pope Innocent the III as can be seen from reading the Latin/French edition of enchiridion symbolorum found here. I can for instance peace together the fact that a group of laity and women were translating scripture in secret, and teaching it in secret. That they were possibly forming their own “clergy”, but I would rather be able to read it in English - no matter how protestant that sounds. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

Can anyone help me out finding an English edition online?

CatholigThat first site is a SDA a-C site, and you pegged them right in that they take the section out of context (both textually and historically) and so misrepresent it. One of the SDA’s favorite tactics that they seem to have inherited from their “prophetess” Ellen G. White. Read her book “The Great Controversy” but have a garbage can close at hand and a super fine point red pen for all the margin notes where you’ll find all the errors and lies. I filled about the first 5-6 chapters liner with those notes before I used that garbage can. :smiley:


#9

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