The Commander In Chief Has Lost The Troops

A unique poll of active-duty troops in Iraq shows a huge disconnect between the commander in chief and the troops in battle. It is evident that the president views the war very differently than the troops on the ground. The loss of the troops may be the final straw in the illegal occupation turned failed war. The foreign policy establishment had already told the president they thought the Iraq war was a mistake. The people have been saying the war was a mistake. All that is left are President Bush and the hawkish leaders of the two parties – only they are calling for staying the course or sending more troops.

The entire article…

The anti-Iraqi Liberation Zogby concocts a poll, that he interprets without giving us the questions he actually ask the troops and without giving us the demographics of who answered the poll, and we are somehow suppose to believe him on, what? Trust? I don’t trusk Zogby, sorry.

“85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.” [left]“Ninety-three percent said that removing weapons of mass destruction is not a reason for U.S. troops being there…”

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[left]

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[left]Isn’t that 85% number just disturbing? Where are these people getting their information? It’s so disappointing to hear that members of the military could be so woefully misinformed.

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[quote=gilliam]The anti-Iraqi Liberation Zogby concocts a poll, that he interprets without giving us the questions he actually ask the troops and without giving us the demographics of who answered the poll, and we are somehow suppose to believe him on, what? Trust? I don’t trusk Zogby, sorry.
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You can get all your questions answered for $19.99.

[quote=Thekla]You can get all your questions answered for $19.99.
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I’m pretty sure I can’t. From what I have read (I haven’t paid the $20), it doesn’t tell:

  1. what the questions were (if you know what they were and then how he matched them to his conclusions, I would be interested).

  2. What the methodology was

  3. The full demographics

In other words, what you would expect from and up-front, honest professional poll.

[quote=Thekla]"85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,”
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0% of the soldiers I know believe this. (1/2 of the soldiers I know are in Iraq now)

“Ninety-three percent said that removing weapons of mass destruction is not a reason for U.S. troops being there…"

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All of the soldiers I know believe this. I know about 30 soldiers personally. They hold the ranks from PFC to Lt. Col.

[size=2]Isn’t that 85% number just disturbing? Where are these people getting their information? It’s so disappointing to hear that members of the military could be so woefully misinformed.

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IMHO, the 85% number is nonsense. I would like to know the question he asked to come up with that conclusion.

IMHO, the 85% number is nonsense. I would like to know the question he asked to come up with that conclusion.

I would as well. It’s in quotes, but I’m not certain if that was the question or not, “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks." Maybe it will get posted at pollingreport.com at some point in the future.

[quote=gilliam]I’m pretty sure I can’t. From what I have read (I haven’t paid the $20), it doesn’t tell:

  1. what the questions were (if you know what they were and then how he matched them to his conclusions, I would be interested).
    [/quote]

I would be interested to know that, too.

[quote=gilliam]2) What the methodology was
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From the Zogby press release…

The survey included 944 military respondents interviewed at several undisclosed locations throughout Iraq. The names of the specific locations and specific personnel who conducted the survey are being withheld for security purposes. Surveys were conducted face-to-face using random sampling techniques. The margin of error for the survey, conducted Jan. 18 through Feb. 14, 2006, is +/- 3.3 percentage points.

[quote=gilliam]In other words, what you would expect from and up-front, honest professional poll.
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Unfortunately, the secrecy about methodological details gives ammo to those who don’t like the poll results.

However, these results are not far fetched, given the results of another poll of military personnel published in Military Times a while back.

I think you’re being too hard on Zogby. A professional pollster would not be stupid enough to publish fake numbers (as you’re suggesting) when being caught would effectively end his career. You can question his methodology and the secrecy surrounding it if you wish, but calling his integrity into question because you don’t like the results is unfair.

I am not saying he has fake numbers. If I gave that impression, I am sorry. I just don’t like his conclusions in the article, especially since we don’t know what the questions are and the conclusions don’t ring true with the real life knowledge I have of what depoyed troops have told me.

Here are some educated guesses and some impressions I have about deployed troops:

  1. He seems to have polled 25% women. Well, we know there are about 14% women deployed in Iraq. The Army does not deploy women in combat units, so a higher percentage would mean he is polling predominately non-combat units.

  2. Non-combat units tend to, historically, be less satisfied with the ‘mission’ and their fate in life than combat units (you can look up previous wars to find this truth out). They have a job to do, and they do it, but they would rather be home.

  3. Heck, ALL troops would rather be home! Only a fool would want to be in a war zone.

  4. Army soldiers are like everyone else, there are Democrats, Republicans and Libertarians in the ranks. They tend to be more conservative, and I have hear the following from the soldiers I know within the last few weeks:“The Iraqi Army is doing fine on their own, we should go home and leave Iraq to them”

“The Iraqi Army needs a lot of help, we need to see this mission through”

“We are soldiers, not police. What the Iraqis need are more US policemen here to train them.”

And I have seen these opinions switch on a daily basis depending on what the soldier has witnesses in the last 24 hours.

So where does that leave us?

As far as this poll is concerned. Nowhere because we don’t know what he asked. We do know Zogby is anti-Iraqi liberation and will bend the poll results to reflect that (he has in other Arab polls). We also know he was getting paid by an anti-war group which may have influenced how he reported the poll.

More c rap from the MSM and libs… blah. Didn’t even click on the link… not worth my time. Illegal occupation? The millions of FREE Iraqious would beg differ.

[quote=gnjsdad]A unique poll of active-duty troops* in Iraq shows a huge disconnect between the commander in chief and the troops in battle. It is evident that the president views the war very differently than the troops on the ground. The loss of the troops may be the final straw in the illegal occupation turned failed war. The foreign policy establishment had already told the president they thought the Iraq war was a mistake. The people have been saying the war was a mistake. All that is left are President Bush and the hawkish leaders of the two parties – only they are calling for staying the course or sending more troops.*

The entire article…
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Metholology: That is a dark hole in this poll. We don’t know if he surveyed by button holing people coming out of church, or the the showers and ask them questions? Did he pass out a survey in the mess hall after a breakfast of chipped beef? We simply don’t know what he did.

Demographics: Another black hole. Did he survey folks in the Sunni triangle? The green zone? Across Iraq? Where? We have to make guesses (like I did above). Not good.

Expert: Zogby “poll” needs “big ‘grains of salt’ “

I’ve received many emails regarding my earlier post, “How reliable is Zogby poll of military in Iraq?,” which raised the serious methodological reasons to suspect the validity of this “poll’s” results that most of our military in Iraq are negative toward our mission and want out of Iraq within the next year.

Even from those sympathetic toward the reported results, I’ve found no knowledgeable argument for accepting the Zogby’s reliability.

Today, Mystery Pollster – who is liberal, a reputable and experienced evaluator of polls, and who had access to some of the “secret” methodology – reveals his judgments. They parallel mine.

UPDATE: Hugh Hewitt, whose lawyerly analyses and interview skills are tops, had his producer phone John Zogby for an on air interview.
Zogby hung up on the producer. So much for building trust in Zogby’s methods!

UPDATE #2: Want to know more about Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, the sponsor of the poll? We still don’t know who gave them the big bucks for the poll?

democracy-project.com/archives/002390.html

The MSM polls today are so skewed today that they are meaningless. It is one of their last tools they have to brainwash the public to their way of thinking. Soon that will fail too. The irrelevance of the MSM is showing in their despiration.

PF

Ya know, it’s not the nicest thing to mention, but it’s true… you only have to be slightly above functionally retarded to enlist in the military… check their standards for the qualifying score on the test they make you take… I’m honestly not all that suprised if a good deal of soldiers happen to be wrong about anything…they’re heroic for what they do, but no one ever said they were geniuses.

What is sad that because of the freedom of speech, people can fake, change numbers or make up thier own poll numbers though “fixing” them they way they want them to appear.

This story is merley bull and does not show what the american people beleive and esp what the military beleive.

The Military is very supportive of the troops, they know why we are there and they want to win. Sadly those liberal who want us to be invaded and taken over by others don’t want us to actually fight a war and win.

[quote=Fr_Chuck]What is sad that because of the freedom of speech, people can fake, change numbers or make up thier own poll numbers though “fixing” them they way they want them to appear.

This story is merley bull and does not show what the american people beleive and esp what the military beleive.

The Military is very supportive of the troops, they know why we are there and they want to win. Sadly those liberal who want us to be invaded and taken over by others don’t want us to actually fight a war and win.
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To say that liberals want to be taken over is a bit much… I’m sure you would be angry if someone made a similarly inflamatory and unfounded statement. C’mon now…

[quote=gilliam]The anti-Iraqi Liberation Zogby concocts a poll, that he interprets without giving us the questions he actually ask the troops and without giving us the demographics of who answered the poll, and we are somehow suppose to believe him on, what? Trust? I don’t trusk Zogby, sorry.
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I guess Zogby is this war’s version of Hanoi Jane or Tokyo Rose:rolleyes: These people should be ignored along with the rest of the MSM.

PF

[quote=WanderAimlessly]I guess Zogby is this war’s version of Hanoi Jane or Tokyo Rose:rolleyes: These people should be ignored along with the rest of the MSM.

PF
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AMEN!

:clapping:

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