The concept of “original sin”


#1

The concept of “original sin”

In order for bro/sis Christians to be able to understand the Islamic position regarding this issue, it is important to be clear about certain points:

First: Islam, unlike Christianity, does not teach a concept of “original sin”. Adam’s sin was his and his alone; and, according to the Qur’an (for the Qur’anic narration of the story of Adam and Eve, see: the Qur’an: 2: 30-39; 7; 19; 17: 61; 18: 50; 20: 116-17, etc.), God forgave both Adam and Eve when they turned to God in repentance; accordingly they were once again restored to divine mercy. Hence there is no concept of Adam passing on to his progeny an original sin, and therefore no need for stipulating a redeemer for such sins.

Second: as there is no original sin, every one is born into a state of fitrah, a state of natural innocence; sin is acquired later by our own conscious and willful actions. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Every child is born into a state of fitrah or natural state of innocence.”

Third: Islam teaches that God is All-Compassionate and All-Merciful; He is not bound by the rule of a blood sacrifice in order to forgive His servants. To assume that God can forgive only by accepting a blood sacrifice and therefore to state that Jesus or Muhammad died for our sins is not acceptable in Islam. Allah says: “O My servants who have wronged against their souls! Do not despair of Allah’s mercy! For Allah forgives all sins; for He is indeed Forgiving, Compassionate. Turn to your Lord repentant, and submit to Him before the torment overtakes you when you shall not be helped.” (Az-Zumar: 53-54)

Fourth: Islam teaches that every individual is responsible for his/her own salvation. Not Abraham, or Moses, or Jesus, or Muhammad can save us; they are only capable of saving themselves through God’s grace. In the words of the Qur’an: “Whoever commits a sin commits it only against himself. Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (An-Nisa’: 111); “Allah does not charge a soul with more than it can bear. It shall be requited for whatever good and whatever it has done.” (Al-Baqarah: 286); “Each soul earns only on its own account, nor does any laden (soul) bear another’s load.” (Al-An`am: 164) “He who is rightly guided, it is for himself; and he who goes astray, it is to his own detriment. No soul can bear another’s burden.” (Al-Isra’: 15)

Fifth: everyone, male or female, can directly approach God without any intermediary of a prophet, saint or priest. God is closer to us than our own jugular veins. Almighty Allah says in the Qur’an: “We created man, and We know the promptings of his soul, and We are nearer to him than his own jugular vein.” (Qaf: 16) “When My servants ask you about Me, tell them I am nigh, ready to answer the prayer of the suppliant when he/she prays to Me; therefore let them respond to Me and believe in Me, that they may be rightly guided.” (Al-Baqarah: 186)

So the entire concept of someone dying for our sins is inimical to the Islamic world-view or understanding of the natures of man and God. Islam beckons us all to respond to God’s message and receive His grace and salvation through faith, good works and leading a responsible moral and ethical life."

Peace be upon you all…


#2

So then why DID Allah speak to us through the Prophets? Why couldn’t Allah speak to each person individually and transmit his message directly into their own minds and hearts instead of bothering with Qurans, Injeels and so on which are sadly and inevitably misconstrued by so many?

Islam beckons us all to respond to God’s message and receive His grace and salvation through faith, good works and leading a responsible moral and ethical life."

Sounds good - but Muslims and Christians have such very different views on what precisely God’s message is (in fact on his very nature), on WHO are the messengers and WHERE written the message of God in which they are to have faith, and often on what good works and a moral and ethical life look like in practice, that both religions cannot be of the same One True God.

Peace be upon you all…

The peace of Christ upon you also.


#3

No, Almighty Allah sent the prophets in order to guide the people to him to worship him without any partner. You know people used to worship the sun, the moon , the idols, Christians worship the man Jesus the prophet I don’t want to discuss this now, so that’s why Almighty Allah sent the prophets to guide people to worship him and to fulfill his law.

Now when somebody wants anything from Allah no need anybody to be intermediary between him and God he can simply pray and make Duaa to almighty Allah asking him whatsoever he want.
See what Allah say:
When My servants ask you about Me, tell them I am nigh, ready to answer the prayer of the suppliant when he/she prays to Me; therefore let them respond to Me and believe in Me, that they may be rightly guided.” (Al-Baqarah: 186)

Peace…


#4

#5

Sounds like people went wrong somewhere. Worshiping idols, the sun, the moon, going off in wrong directions.

But if every person is born in a state of innocence, with no fallen nature at all, what impetus could lead them astray? There ought to have been no need of prophets.

The truth is, people’s tendencies toward doing the wrong thing seem to be an observable fact of the human condition.


#6

First Islamic Lie!!! The Quran latently endorses the concept of original sin because it makes it clear that the effects of Adam & Eve’s first sin were inherited by mankind. All men are expelled from the garden because of their parents’ first sin:

002: 036-37. But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time. Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.

According to the Quran, all people were bound to faith in divine scripture & prophets because of Adam’s fall:

002: 38. We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

It is not difficult to guess that the innocence in question signifies the lack of personal sins rather than the perfect state of human nature since **human nature **was banished from the garden! Why need for guidance if every human is born into a perfect state?

I fail to understand why such a compassionate Allah needed Muslims to fight for Mohammed & his dominion. Actually, what Mohammed taught was that every Muslim had to go to the battlefield (for the social & political salvation) in order to die for Mohammed’s victory and welfare. This is why Mohammed cursed people that did not join him for the jihad, disregarding their personal faith & good deeds. :smiley:

to be continued…


#7

Christianity teaches that NO ONE is able to save oneself. God is the only Savior to save the believers. Were Jesus not different than all the other prophets, He would not have redeemed us! Besides, the Quran presents contradictory statements about one’s carrying the burden of another. The following verse claims that some people will carry the load (sins) of others:

029: 013 13. But they verily will bear** their own loads **and other loads beside their own, and they verily will be questioned on the Day of Resurrection concerning that which they invented.

Another lie! The Quran endorses the Judaic **priesthood **through vague references to Zecchariah’s prayer in the sanctuary (19: 11) The same can be said about Mary’s dedication to holy service in the Temple (3: 35)

True: Allah is closer to Muslims than their own jugular veins, but does this indicate His infinite love for mankind? NO! Allah watches over people so as to record everything they think & say so that He can punish them on the last day! Further, He needs angels to do the recording:

050: 017-18. When the two Receivers receive (him), seated on the right hand and on the left, he uttereth no word but there is with him an observer ready.

Finally, 002: 186 is ironic because Allah is said to talk to Muslims through Mohammed! In order to know how to pray to Allah, Muslims needed a prophet. However, they still turn their faces to a stone construction in prayer! LOL

Peace & blessings,

Angelos N.


#8

Most Muslims don’t even know what the Christian position on “original sin” is to begin with. Whether or not the OP here does remains to be seen.

Muslims have a tendency to argue against strawman beliefs, but what’s even worse is that a lot of times they still manage to drag people into the mud anyway. :banghead:


#9

I think that you all missed the whole point here, the difference between Islam and Christianity in regard with original sin is that Christianity believe that people have inherited Adam’s sin when he ate from the forbidden tree and any baby is born as sinful because of Adam sins and accordingly Jesus came to the earth in order to save people and sacrifice himself for people’s sin.

But Islam says that Adam’s sin is his mistake alone and any baby is born in the state of fitra as sinless and he will be judged according to his deeds.
And we believe that we will be saved not only by our deeds but also under God’s grace.

Peaceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


#10

I also see that u miss the whole point in the Quran :smiley:

Allah is such a fair judge that takes all human race out of his paradise although it is only Adam who commits a sin by eating of the forbidden fruit. Why was I not born in paradise if your claim that all humans are born sinless is true? Why do I have to wait for a guidance when I am sinless? Why do I need prophets & Scripture to do good deeds and know God if humanity has not inherited Adam’s sin? Why did Allah let Ibliys test us till the end of times?Why do I have to bear the consequences of Adam???

Peaceeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :wink:


#11

First: Islam, unlike Christianity, does not teach a concept of “original sin”.

I can’t remember where the concept of “original sin” was devised but I always thought of it as a modern invention drawn from extrapolation alone. Adam and Eve, according to the book of Genisis ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The “original sin” is never explained entirely and it seems to be some sort of sexual innuendo to me. It is not explicitly stated however that the “sin” of disobedience follows man other than having being expelled from Eden and not returning.

Second: as there is no original sin, every one is born into a state of fitrah, a state of natural innocence

Christianity does not teach that people are in sin at birth. It is the teaching of Christ that all people are sinners. In that very simple statement we assume that there needs to be the opportunity to sin. Jesus is said to be sinless. After telling us that we are all sinners, to tell us that he, himself, is without sin is a bit outrageous. The ordinance of Communion is often thought of as the age of accountability, if you will.

Third: Islam teaches that God is All-Compassionate and All-Merciful; He is not bound by the rule of a blood sacrifice in order to forgive His servants.

In dealing with Christians I often times make the concession of the sacrifice of Christ. I was taught about Christianity in my youth. It was not my intention to be religiously inclined and I found God as a supernatural phenomnon apart from scripture or organized religion. Incorporating religion, Islam or Christianity does not effect this. I do believe that Jesus was a prophet of God and that he did die under the requirement of God. I will say that I did not find God by not exploring why he would die and God would have him die. One reason I can come up with is that he is the last person who is of God who will be allowed to be persecuted. When Peter is jailed God frees him and protects the Church. And this is what I have seen. That those of God who are persecuted are vindicated. Most of my time is occupied by why other people die in four or five different ways. To be honest, the Quaran is more appropriate to whole situation. The Muslims I know are mostly black. I am white and I do not speak Arabic and do not see myself learning a new language. I have gone to Christians and Christianity to find someone who can explain this, someone who can or would see these things. It is far beyond most peoples ability to comprehend either do to erroneous religious belief or the modern worlds “false miracles” and fantastically fictional media. I have read the Bible and most of the Quaran but it is by what I see that I can affirm is of God that draw my belief in God. There is a passage that the Quaran will be made easier to remember. It is in this that I was able to read it without ever in my life having picked it up.

“O My servants who have wronged against their souls! Do not despair of Allah’s mercy! For Allah forgives all sins; for He is indeed Forgiving, Compassionate. Turn to your Lord repentant, and submit to Him before the torment overtakes you when you shall not be helped.”

I believe that Christ say that his Church is a rock and some stumble upon it, others are smashed to dust by it. They are smashed to dust.

Fourth: Islam teaches that every individual is responsible for his/her own salvation.

I do not know those who have been smashed to dust.

“Each soul earns only on its own account, nor does any laden (soul) bear another’s load.”

I bear a load and it is only of God. But it is separated from myself.

Fifth: everyone, male or female, can directly approach God without any intermediary of a prophet, saint or priest. God is closer to us than our own jugular veins.

brains and hearts

So the entire concept of someone dying for our sins is inimical to the Islamic world-view or understanding of the natures of man and God.

I have no doubt that Jesus did die. To say it was for our sins? I do not sin upon his blood. People do die (and are broken) and it is not always the worst sinner or the best representative of the group but it is of God.


#12

The concept of original sin does not mean that we have inherited Adams sin or that we are responsible for it. Every child is born without having personally sinned.

It only means that we cannot inherit from our first parents that which they lost, any more than a billionaire can pass on his billions to his heirs after he has gambled away his billions at the poker table.

Adam and Eve’s state of original innocence was far more than simply lack of sin. It was the presence of sanctifying grace and a human nature that was perfectly integrated, without the discordant desires that are a result of sin.

While we can once again be placed in a state of grace through baptism, we cannot regain that perfectly integrated human nature, and find ourselves prone to do what we know we should not, or to not do the things we should. The word for that is concupiscence.


#13

lightofeyes,

You’re confirming my suspicion more and more with each post. I really don’t think you even know what original sin is.


#14

i know no Muslim who understands what it is. They totally reject it as “Christian invention” because their Imams say so.

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. ‘**O Adam! You are our father WHO DISAPPOINTED US AND TURNED US OUT OF PARADISE.’ **Then Adam said to him, ‘O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?’ So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses,” the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 77, Number 611)

Did our Muslim friend reply to this? no because maybe Bukhari was a “Christian”.


#15

Before Adam and Eve sinned they were not even aware that they were naked! After they sinned, their eyes were opened and they realized it. Do you know of anyone who can look at a naked person, and not realize the person is naked??? When they sinned, we all lost our innocence, our eyes were opened as well.

The fact that we’re all sinners testifies that we have indeed inherited original sin, otherwise no one else would have sinned after they did.


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