The Crusades!


#1

Ok, in another forum I am having a discussion on the Crusades, and I the argument is quite lopsided because it is a very liberal forum, and I don’t know alot about the Crusades. Here is the link to the conversation, and if you see any posts in their that you think you know the answer to, please let me know. twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18772 The main questions I have, is why the Crusades were started, were the Crusaders really evil and did they sack cities and rape civilians, what the Muslims did that were evil, and just an overview of what you apologists see on the matter. I read that the Muslims were very kind and let people live in their kingdoms peacefully. Is this true? Thank you, and if you have any links as evidence, could you please post them as well (non catholic please). I am only 14, and wanted to know an apologists opinion on the matter.


#2

Hello,

I am not an apologist (in either sense of the word), but you might want to start here:

The Real History of the Crusades

Scullinius


#3

[quote=Scullinius]Hello,

I am not an apologist (in either sense of the word), but you might want to start here:

The Real History of the Crusades

Scullinius
[/quote]

Yes, yes. If you would have clicked on the link I posted, you would have seen that the very first post on that page had that same link, posted by me. I need a little bit more help than just two websties.


#4

Yes, well, you’re quite welcome anyway.


#5

The crusades keep coming up at the moment.

Probably because some people want to transform them into some terrible war of aggression against “peacable muslims”, when the opposite is true.

A good site for facts about the crusades is the CCEL History of Christianity by the Protestant Historian Schaff. he is very opinionated, and not very pro-catholic, but he does give a lot of the facts. try here:

ccel.org/s/schaff/history/5_ch07.htm

On what provoked the crusades:

Muslim attack on Armenia, 1059, 30 years **before ** the Crusades.

On Sunday 6th August the siege of Sebastea began, as did the slaughter; thousands of corpses littered the ground. What a dreadful scene. The bodies of highly renowned men were piled in a heap as if a forest of trees had been felled. and the ground was soaked with blood…
They ruthlessly massacred an immense number of people, carried off booty and took untold numbers of captives, men and women, young boys and girls, whom they sold into slavery… Fateful day! In a matter of minutes sebastea and the surrounding plain were bathed in blood. The clear waters of the River Kizil Irmak which cuts through the city walls, suddenly flowed red.

In 1064 the Turks returned. He made his way towards Armenia and entered the country; the inhabitants were put to the sword and driven into slavery. The infidels were so numerous that they covered the plains and closed off al the escape routes. Then he invaded Georgia, bringing death and slavery wherever he went. … The Turks exterminated all the inhabitants, men, women, priests, monks and nobles; the young boys and girls were taken away captive into Persia…" Chronicle of Matthew of Edessa.

Then the Muslim attack on Byzantium came in 1071, 20 Years **Before ** the Crusades. They killed and slaughtered thousands in the cities of Anatolia. reaching to the very gates of Constantinople.

All this happened before the first crusader set foot in the east.

The Eastern Emperor Alexis appealed to the west for help. In response Pope Urban preached his famous sermon at the Council of Clermont in 1095, launching the Crusades. Here is an excerpt:

Freshly quickened by the divine correction, you must apply the strength of your righteousness to another matter which concerns you as well as God. For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire. If you permit them to continue thus for awhile with impurity, the faithful of God will be much more widely attacked by them. On this account I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ’s heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.


#6

[quote=ximan]Ok, in another forum I am having a discussion on the Crusades, and I the argument is quite lopsided because it is a very liberal forum, and I don’t know alot about the Crusades. Here is the link to the conversation, and if you see any posts in their that you think you know the answer to, please let me know. twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18772 The main questions I have, is why the Crusades were started, were the Crusaders really evil and did they sack cities and rape civilians, what the Muslims did that were evil, and just an overview of what you apologists see on the matter. I read that the Muslims were very kind and let people live in their kingdoms peacefully. Is this true? Thank you, and if you have any links as evidence, could you please post them as well (non catholic please). I am only 14, and wanted to know an apologists opinion on the matter.
[/quote]

The Holy Crusades are nothing to be ashamed of. The Mulims started a war withby attempting to take over Catholic areas and the Church responded. The Muslims were the aggressors. They were not peacefull and kind people as you have been told. Just look at the Muslims today; and I mean the militant Muslims: That is who the Church was at war with.

There may have been some individual Catholic soldiers who did some bad things, but that is to be expected in a war. No one has ever claimed that all Catholics are saints, but the Crusades themselves were not a bad thing: they were a good thing.

We should be very thankful to those brave Catholics for fighting as they did. If they would not have, we could all be worshipping allah today. And if any Catholics today apologizes for the Crusades, they should be ashamed of themselves. This was a war of the Church against an evil religion that started the fight. Thank God for the Crusades and for those brave Catholics who gave their life in defense of the faith and the Church. I wish we had more Catholics like that today.


#7

From what I understand, the Muslim invasion was so great that they came right up to the gates or Vienna carrying the banner of Islam.

The Holy Crusade was a desperate attempt formed by the Church to fight back. Drive them back as well as take the Holy Land itself. I don’t remember if the Holy Land, that is Jeruslem, Nazareth etc. were originally part of Muslim territory, but that was the plan…

The bad part of it I do know is that the Crusaders themselves became blood-thirsty and pillaged, raped and killed, and as much as I’ve heard for whatever reason the Church didn’t do enough if anything to quell it but I think they were informed…

Anyway this is no different than the American atrocities in Vietnam, so this isn’t something only religious related… I’d also like some more info on this, or to know if I’m wrong about anything I said here…


#8

if you think we have spin today, that’s nothing compared to the spin we get on history.

it’s often difficult (or impossible) to know what happened 15 years ago, let alone 1000.

but take a look at what islam teaches and then look at what christianity teaches. today, right now. islam teaches death to infidels - it teaches that muslims should hate christians - it teaches jihad.

christianity teaches that we should love our enemies and bless them. that we should turn the other cheek.

it seem unlikely that the crusades were a time when both religions suddenly starting practicing the teachings of the other.


#9

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