the Crusades


#1

What is the Catholic view on the Crusades? Do we still believe it was a good thing? Do we still believe the people who were promised indulgences got indulgences?


#2

The Crusades were a good thing. They were in response to the Islamic brutality in its expansion here is a brief time line

630 Two years before Muhammad’s death of a fever, he launches the Tabuk Crusades, in which he led 30,000 jihadists against the Byzantine Christians. He had heard a report that a huge army had amassed to attack Arabia, but the report turned out to be a false rumor. The Byzantine army never materialized. He turned around and went home, but not before extracting ‘agreements’ from northern tribes. They could enjoy the ‘privilege’ of living under Islamic ‘protection’ if they paid a tax (jizya).

This tax sets the stage for Muhammad’s and the later Caliphs’ policies. If the attacked city or region did not want to convert to Islam, then they paid a jizya tax. If they converted, then they paid a zakat tax. Either way, money flowed back to the Islamic treasury in Arabia or to the local Muslim governor.

632—634 Under the Caliphate of Abu Bakr the Muslim Crusaders reconquer and sometimes conquer for the first time the polytheists of Arabia. These Arab polytheists had to convert to Islam or die. They did not have the choice of remaining in their faith and paying a tax. Islam does not allow for religious freedom.

633 The Muslim Crusaders, led by Khalid al—Walid, a superior but bloodthirsty military commander, whom Muhammad nicknamed the Sword of Allah for his ferocity in battle (Tabari, 8:158 / 1616—17), conquer the city of Ullays along the Euphrates River (in today’s Iraq). Khalid captures and beheads so many that a nearby canal, into which the blood flowed, was called Blood Canal (Tabari 11:24 / 2034—35).

634 At the Battle of Yarmuk in Syria the Muslim Crusaders defeat the Byzantines. Today Osama bin Laden draws inspiration from the defeat, and especially from an anecdote about Khalid al—Walid. An unnamed Muslim remarks: ‘The Romans are so numerous and the Muslims so few.’ To this Khalid retorts: ‘How few are the Romans, and how many the Muslims! Armies become numerous only with victory and few only with defeat, not by the number of men. By God, I would love it . . . if the enemy were twice as many’ (Tabari, 11:94 / 2095). Osama bin Ladin quotes Khalid and says that his fighters love death more than we in the West love life. This philosophy of death probably comes from a verse like Sura 2:96. Muhammad assesses the Jews: ‘[Prophet], you are sure to find them [the Jews] clinging to life more eagerly than any other people, even polytheists’ (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004; first insertion in brackets is Haleem’s; the second mine).

634—644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al—Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.

635 Muslim Crusaders besiege and conquer of Damascus

636 Muslim Crusaders defeat Byzantines decisively at Battle of Yarmuk.

637 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iraq at the Battle of al—Qadisiyyah (some date it in 635 or 636)

638 Muslim Crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.

638—650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.

639—642 Muslim Crusaders conquer Egypt.

641 Muslim Crusaders control Syria and Palestine.

643—707 Muslim Crusaders conquer North Africa.

644 Caliph Umar is assassinated by a Persian prisoner of war; Uthman ibn Affan is elected third Caliph, who is regarded by many Muslims as gentler than Umar.

644—650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.

656 Caliph Uthman is assassinated by disgruntled Muslim soldiers; Ali ibn Abi Talib, son—in—law and cousin to Muhammad, who married the prophet’s daughter Fatima through his first wife Khadija, is set up as Caliph.

656 Battle of the Camel, in which Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, leads a rebellion against Ali for not avenging Uthman’s assassination. Ali’s partisans win.

657 Battle of Siffin between Ali and Muslim governor of Jerusalem, arbitration goes against Ali

661 Murder of Ali by an extremist; Ali’s supporters acclaim his son Hasan as next Caliph, but he comes to an agreement with Muawiyyah I and retires to Medina.


#3

Continued

661—680 the Caliphate of Muawiyyah I. He founds Umayyid dynasty and moves capital from Medina to Damascus

673—678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire

680 Massacre of Hussein (Muhammad's grandson), his family, and his supporters in Karbala, Iraq.

691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad's death.

705 Abd al—Malik restores Umayyad rule.

710—713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.

711—713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. This article recounts how Muslims today still grieve over their expulsion 700 years later. They seem to believe that the land belonged to them in the first place.

719 Cordova, Spain, becomes seat of Arab governor

732 The Muslim Crusaders stopped at the Battle of Poitiers; that is, Franks (France) halt Arab advance

749 The Abbasids conquer Kufah and overthrow Umayyids

756 Foundation of Umayyid amirate in Cordova, Spain, setting up an independent kingdom from Abbasids

762 Foundation of Baghdad

785 Foundation of the Great Mosque of Cordova

789 Rise of Idrisid amirs (Muslim Crusaders) in Morocco; foundation of Fez; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.

800 Autonomous Aghlabid dynasty (Muslim Crusaders) in Tunisia

807 Caliph Harun al—Rashid orders the destruction of non—Muslim prayer houses and of the church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem

809 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sardinia, Italy

813 Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country

831 Muslim Crusaders capture Palermo, Italy; raids in Southern Italy

850 Caliph al—Matawakkil orders the destruction of non—Muslim houses of prayer

855 Revolt of the Christians of Hims (Syria)

837—901 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy, France

869—883 Revolt of black slaves in Iraq

909 Rise of the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia; these Muslim Crusaders occupy Sicily, Sardinia

928—969 Byzantine military revival, they retake old territories, such as Cyprus (964) and Tarsus (969)

937 The Ikhshid, a particularly harsh Muslim ruler, writes to Emperor Romanus, boasting of his control over the holy places

937 The Church of the Resurrection (known as Church of Holy Sepulcher in Latin West) is burned down by Muslims; more churches in Jerusalem are attacked

960 Conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam

966 Anti—Christian riots in Jerusalem

969 Fatimids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Egypt and found Cairo

c. 970 Seljuks enter conquered Islamic territories from the East

973 Israel and southern Syria are again conquered by the Fatimids

1003 First persecutions by al—Hakim; the Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed

1009 Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al—Hakim (see 937)

1012 Beginning of al—Hakim's oppressive decrees against Jews and Christians

1015 Earthquake in Palestine; the dome of the Dome of the Rock collapses

1031 Collapse of Umayyid Caliphate and establishment of 15 minor independent dynasties throughout Muslim Andalus

1048 Reconstruction of the Church of the Resurrection completed

1050 Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (aka Murabitun) are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.

1055 Seljuk Prince Tughrul enters Baghdad, consolidation of the Seljuk Sultanate

1055 Confiscation of property of Church of the Resurrection

1071 Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks (Muslim Crusaders) defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia

1071 Turks (Muslim Crusaders) invade Palestine

1073 Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks (Muslim Crusaders)

1075 Seljuks (Muslim Crusaders) capture Nicea (Iznik) and make it their capital in Anatolia

1076 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) conquer western Ghana

1085 Toledo is taken back by Christian armies

1086 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) send help to Andalus, Battle of Zallaca

1090—1091 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) occupy all of Andalus except Saragossa and Balearic Islands

1094 Byzantine emperor Alexius Comnenus I asks western Christendom for help against Seljuk invasions of his territory; Seljuks are Muslim Turkish family of eastern origins; see 970

1095 Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099

So it is only after all of the Islamic aggressive invasions that Western Christendom launches its first Crusades.


#4

I am unsure if the Church has an official position on the Crusades. However, the papacy governs different times based on their particular needs, and each pope has the authority to bind and loose, given by Christ Himself. (Matthew 18:18) The papacy has the authority to, for example, excommunicate someone, and in a later age, another pope has equal authority to lift that excommunication. Both were valid, and both have direct power over the soul of the individual in question, per the aforementioned authority given to the pope by God. Indulgences granted and approved of by the papacy were valid during the Crusades, so far as I can ascertain, as were indulgences that were in later decades sold for money, even if their delivery (being sold for money) was not necessarily the best way (even though some good came from it, such as funding for the art in the Sistine Chapel).

As for the validity of the Crusades themselves, we must always judge decisions of the Church based on the specific times in which they were given. At the time, the papacy was the only unifying power in Europe. Germanic diffusion of power created a myriad of individual states and holdings which very often conflicted with one another. In order to answer the grave threat that the Islamic armies posed to Europe, especially to Byzantium and the Eastern Church (who specifically requested aid against the Muslims from the Pope), the pope exerted his secular authority to call a Crusade, both to protect Europe and to unify Europe against the distractions of its own internal jostling.

The separation of Church and state, which has been a principle of Europe long before the advent of modern secular states, has always been difficult for the West, and was not shared in the East. Often, both sides desired and strove for absolute power over both their own sphere and the other. This eventually lead both to absolute secularism, and to the Protestant system in which the Church was one with the state, the latter having ultimate authority over the former. Catholicism has always taught (despite the occasional stumbling of its members) that the powers of Church and state are and should be distinct; however, it has also taught that the spiritual matters of the Church are ultimately superior in importance to any temporal affair, and should always guide the actions of the stat that are relevant to faith or morals, while Christians owe allegiance to the state in all temporal matters.

Since the fall of Rome, the pope possessed a special degree of secular authority, largely by necessity as the only power recognized by almost all Europeans. This power was sometimes exerted too strongly or even abused at times, but at other times, such as during the Crusades, it was both necessary and helpful. The real tragedy of the Crusades was its necessity, not that the Church called for it. Again, this is my personal belief. God bless.


#5

I know this is politically incorrect, and I may get a ridiculous warning from that ninja guy if he's still around, but I've become gradually more convinced that Islam is, in fact, Satanic.

What other kind of religion would put forth a man who (according to its own sacred scripture) committed acts of banditry, rape, pedophilia, and murder and claim him to be a prophet and the Perfect Man whom all should imitate. What other kind of religion would seek to ban all beauty from the world, by proscribing art, music, and the female form? What kind of religion would be mean enough to deprecate man's best friend, calling them filthy and claiming angels don't enter a house where there is a dog? What kind of religion would destroy the possibility of real love between a man and a woman by reinstituting polygamy and making women the chattel of men?

Above all, what kind of religion would claim the Bible is corrupted and would make it its business to deny Christ's divinity. At the so-called Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, that's what that flowing Arabic calligraphy says.

Aside from some isolated incidents, that though lamentable were unexceptional for the time and the circumstances, we have nothing to apologize for. The Crusades were a just war against an unholy force that sought and still seeks to dominate the world. I for one regret that they were not completely successful.


#6

fkjuliona, actually your exactly politcally correct, wa to go there.
But your absolutely WRONG to the Catholic faith and have, as most of the posters to the this subject in denial of the Catechism of the Catholic faith your express an ignornance of commited a Mortal sin in your ignorance.

WE would suggest you stop your bigotry and go and educate yourself to what the Church of Truth says to issue of Cahtolic, Jewish and Islam of the one True God.

This poster exibites a FACT this site, thought called Catholic, and "Pretends" to be of Truth, is not of Catholic, but rather harbors a Agneda defiant to the Catholic faith..

of all this great exact detail of justification of detail against the Islamic, wow, is this a scam deal to punch all this out like a set up?

We should recognize a great error of it existing on this site, its bad, and should not be erased but chastised for its failure and ignorance, IT IS.

When Gangis Kon conquered across Asia and into the Middle East he conquered the Islamic cities, but, IN FACT of REAL history he came to Accept and Follow along with those who conquered, to Islamic of the One TRue God we all worship, and then so brought and spread it back over Asia...

Sorry we dont have the ability to Give EXACT detail as That Orthadox mind of a child with an agenda defiant to the Catholic Churchs Truth..

Terrible terrible is this bigotry, and to exibite it here on WHAT is SUPOSE BE A CATHOLIC SITE, TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE. SIN IS SIN PEOPLE, IGNORANCE DOES NOT EXCUSE YOU......


#7

Live as free men, yet without using your freedom as a pretext to evil, but live as servants to God.....

bigotry towards the Islamic, Or Jewish, or Catholic is a pretext to evil, and the Mercy and Justice of God do we pray for that it ends as all bigotry is guarded against, to be stood against and never condoned.


#8

I will be kind. I will be brief. It is not bigotry to study history and form a reasonable opinion.


#9

[quote="wanabesaint, post:6, topic:308504"]
fkjuliona, actually your exactly politcally correct, wa to go there.
But your absolutely WRONG to the Catholic faith and have, as most of the posters to the this subject in denial of the Catechism of the Catholic faith your express an ignornance of commited a Mortal sin in your ignorance.

WE would suggest you stop your bigotry and go and educate yourself to what the Church of Truth says to issue of Cahtolic, Jewish and Islam of the one True God.

This poster exibites a FACT this site, thought called Catholic, and "Pretends" to be of Truth, is not of Catholic, but rather harbors a Agneda defiant to the Catholic faith..

of all this great exact detail of justification of detail against the Islamic, wow, is this a scam deal to punch all this out like a set up?

We should recognize a great error of it existing on this site, its bad, and should not be erased but chastised for its failure and ignorance, IT IS.

When Gangis Kon conquered across Asia and into the Middle East he conquered the Islamic cities, but, IN FACT of REAL history he came to Accept and Follow along with those who conquered, to Islamic of the One TRue God we all worship, and then so brought and spread it back over Asia...

Sorry we dont have the ability to Give EXACT detail as That Orthadox mind of a child with an agenda defiant to the Catholic Churchs Truth..Terrible terrible is this bigotry, and to exibite it here on WHAT is SUPOSE BE A CATHOLIC SITE, TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE. SIN IS SIN PEOPLE, IGNORANCE DOES NOT EXCUSE YOU......

[/quote]

Well where to start. Ok I used Historical facts I am a student of history. I formed my opion with reading and studying Historical facts So how does that make me a bigot? You accuses me of having a agenda but your the one who comes here insulting people who don't share your view. Then you say I'm defiant to the church which is a another outlandish statement you have made. Sounds to me like judging :shrug: If you don't like my opion which i use Historical facts To back me up then do not read them. You say they worship the one true God well you are False. I will use the Quran to prove my point The god in Islam says he is not a Trinity which our Lord is, so if he is not a trinity then he is not god. In the quran he has 99 names he is called and one of them is very odd he is known as the great deceiver. How can a holy god deceive people? The answer is easy he cant! but their god can. Before you scream racist and accuse people falsely of having a agenda please check your facts. Please fellow readers forgive me of any spelling mistakes or bad grammer that post got under my skin.:mad:


#10

[quote="wanabesaint, post:6, topic:308504"]
fkjuliona, actually your exactly politcally correct, wa to go there.
But your absolutely WRONG to the Catholic faith and have, as most of the posters to the this subject in denial of the Catechism of the Catholic faith your express an ignornance of commited a Mortal sin in your ignorance.

WE would suggest you stop your bigotry and go and educate yourself to what the Church of Truth says to issue of Cahtolic, Jewish and Islam of the one True God.

This poster exibites a FACT this site, thought called Catholic, and "Pretends" to be of Truth, is not of Catholic, but rather harbors a Agneda defiant to the Catholic faith..

of all this great exact detail of justification of detail against the Islamic, wow, is this a scam deal to punch all this out like a set up?

We should recognize a great error of it existing on this site, its bad, and should not be erased but chastised for its failure and ignorance, IT IS.

When Gangis Kon conquered across Asia and into the Middle East he conquered the Islamic cities, but, IN FACT of REAL history he came to Accept and Follow along with those who conquered, to Islamic of the One TRue God we all worship, and then so brought and spread it back over Asia...

Sorry we dont have the ability to Give EXACT detail as That Orthadox mind of a child with an agenda defiant to the Catholic Churchs Truth..

Terrible terrible is this bigotry, and to exibite it here on WHAT is SUPOSE BE A CATHOLIC SITE, TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE. SIN IS SIN PEOPLE, IGNORANCE DOES NOT EXCUSE YOU......

[/quote]

I would respond to your post if I could understand it.


#11

Thanks for the post Orthodox guy!


#12

[quote="mab23, post:11, topic:308504"]
Thanks for the post Orthodox guy!

[/quote]

Your welcome :thumbsup: I thought I could shine a light into the darkness


#13

Catechism 841 states that Muslims worship the One True God.


#14

CCC 844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them


#15

Your point?


#16

Matthew 7:16-20

16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. 18 A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.

In spite of the declaration by the Church that they worship the One True God, which I will accept as a future catechumen, there is a difference between worship and obedience. That is plain enough, not in conflict with the teaching of the Church, or in conflict with Scripture.

Semantics does not a truth make. Evidence does.


#17

Quicunque Vult (The Athanasian Creed - Infallible)
“He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity…it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the*** Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ***.”


#18

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/closed-1.gif


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