The death of our sun


#1

There is much debate about ‘Creation’, but I wondered what you all think about the idea that the sun will most likely explode in about 4500 million years or so (my figures may be a bit out), and the Earth will be destroyed in the explosion.
First lets assume that the human race is still around at that time.
Would God have created Man knowing that this destructive event would occur and thus destroy His creation?
Would the ability to set up new population centres on other planets contradict Gods plan and Catholic teachings?
Just a thoght or two…

Matt


#2

I am only worried about the next 40-50 years, not my problem.


#3

Read Revelations, perticularly Chapter 21 and on. Then you may have the same atitude as I do about the sun blowing up… So What!!! God Bless


#4

[quote=puzzleannie]I am only worried about the next 40-50 years, not my problem.
[/quote]

YEARS!!
I usually worry in terms of hours.
However…point taken

Matt


#5

[quote=english_matt]There is much debate about ‘Creation’, but I wondered what you all think about the idea that the sun will most likely explode in about 4500 million years or so (my figures may be a bit out), and the Earth will be destroyed in the explosion.
First lets assume that the human race is still around at that time.
Would God have created Man knowing that this destructive event would occur and thus destroy His creation?
Would the ability to set up new population centres on other planets contradict Gods plan and Catholic teachings?
Just a thoght or two…

Matt
[/quote]

Man will be extinct long before then, unless we have moved to a different solar system - the estimate I read was about 5,000,000,000 years time; our sun is a middle-aged star.


#6

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## Man will be extinct long before then
[/quote]

Why do you think that?

Matt


#7

[quote=english_matt] … the sun will most likely explode in about 4500 million years or so (my figures may be a bit out), and the Earth will be destroyed in the explosion. …
[/quote]

While the sun will die in about 5,000,000,000 years, earth will become uninhabitable much sooner – around 700,000 years from now earth will not longer be able to support life.

You see, the sun is able to keep burning through a process called Nuclear fusion. Nuclear fusion is an atomic reaction that fuels stars. In fusion, many nuclei (the centers of atoms) combine together to make a larger one (which is a different element). The result of this process is the release of a lot of energy (the resultant nucleus is smaller in mass than the sum of the ones that made it; the difference in mass is converted into energy by the equation E=mc2)

Initially, hydrogen (1H) is converted into helium (4He) – that has been going on for nearly the past five billion years and will finish in about 700,000 years from now. Once all of the hydrogen has been used up, things drasticly change and speed up. As the heavier elements begin to undergo fusion, more heat and radition will be released making the earth unable to support life.

helium (4He) will convert into carbon (12C), which will convert into oxygen (16O), which will convert into neon (20Ne), which will convert into magnesium (24Mg), which will convert into silicon (28Si), which will convert into sulfur (32S), which will convert into calcium (40Ca), which will convert into titanium (48Ti), which will convert into chromium (52Cr) which will convert into iron (56Fe). Once the entire sun is composed of iron, further fusion is not possible and it will go nova in about 5,000,000,000 years but again, earth will become uninhabitable much sooner – around 700,000 years from now when the sun runs out of hydrogen fuel.

[quote=english_matt] …Would God have created Man knowing that this destructive event would occur and thus destroy His creation? …
[/quote]

Doesn’t it say somewhere that the first time God destroyed the earth with water (the flood) and the second time it will be by fire? What’s going to happen with the sun might be what that statement is referring to – so it might be part of God’s long range plans all along.

[quote=english_matt] …Would the ability to set up new population centres on other planets contradict Gods plan and Catholic teachings? …
[/quote]

It is not possible for us to set up population centres on other planets outside of our solar system. It has nothing to do with technology but with the limits imposed by the laws of physics. Assuming we had starships that could fly hundreds of times faster than anything we have today and assuming that we had a limitless suppy of fuel to power these ship (two very big and very unlikely assumptions), the laws of physics would still prevent us from reaching other inhabitable plants outside of our solar system so there would be no contradiction of God’s plan or Catholic teaching.

I started to explain exactly how the laws of physics would prevent us from setting up population centres on other planets outside of our solar system, but I exceeded the post size limit. If anyone is interested, just PM or email me for the details.


#8

[quote=english_matt]Would the ability to set up new population centres on other planets contradict Gods plan and Catholic teachings?
[/quote]

If God gave us the brains to save ourselves, I don’t think we should disappoint God. Of course, we may find things on other planets which contradict what some think is God’s plan but I don’'t remember any admonitions to stay home and die.


#9

[quote=english_matt]There is much debate about ‘Creation’, but I wondered what you all think about the idea that the sun will most likely explode in about 4500 million years or so (my figures may be a bit out), and the Earth will be destroyed in the explosion.
First lets assume that the human race is still around at that time.
Would God have created Man knowing that this destructive event would occur and thus destroy His creation?
Would the ability to set up new population centres on other planets contradict Gods plan and Catholic teachings?
Just a thoght or two…

Matt
[/quote]

Are you saying that the sun is more powerful than God ?, what happend at Fatima in front of 70,000 witness’es.
Didn’t Jesus calm the sea of Galilee ? don’t demons submit to His power ?
God controls the Heavens, so whatever God wills, so be it.


#10

[quote=Stephen-Maguire]Are you saying that the sun is more powerful than God ?, what happend at Fatima in front of 70,000 witness’es.
Didn’t Jesus calm the sea of Galilee ? don’t demons submit to His power ?
God controls the Heavens, so whatever God wills, so be it.
[/quote]

God set up the natural universe to obey the laws of chemistry, physics, gravity, etc. and God rarely directly intervenes, even to save millions, from either man-made or natural disasters. God may not allow the sun to follow its natural course to demise but we would be foolish to sit around and do nothing to look after ourselves. Followers of God would never buy insurance if that was how we lived.


#11

[quote=english_matt]There is much debate about ‘Creation’, but I wondered what you all think about the idea that the sun will most likely explode in about 4500 million years or so (my figures may be a bit out), and the Earth will be destroyed in the explosion.
First lets assume that the human race is still around at that time.
Would God have created Man knowing that this destructive event would occur and thus destroy His creation?
Would the ability to set up new population centres on other planets contradict Gods plan and Catholic teachings?
Just a thoght or two…

Matt
[/quote]

The magnitude of the explosion depends upon the mass of the Sun. High mass stars undergo what we may call a supernova explosion where a star blows off its outer shell and releases enough energy for the star to temporarily outshine the galaxy for a few days at least. Low-mass stars like the Sun would never reach that point, but the dramatic processes that would occur in the Sun in its last days would still be cataclysmic enough to extinguish life on Earth, and make the Solar system quite dangerous to life. In any case, the human race could be extinct by then since the Sun is expected to live for at least five billion more years. If ever the human race is still around, we might have progressed to the point wherein our descendants would be capable of establishing flourishing colonies in other star systems.

It would not contradict God’s plan since the entire universe is still a part of God’s creation. His laws still apply. Only the battlefield has changed.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#12

[quote=Sir Knight]Doesn’t it say somewhere that the first time God destroyed the earth with water (the flood) and the second time it will be by fire? What’s going to happen with the sun might be what that statement is referring to – so it might be part of God’s long range plans all along.
[/quote]

Good point.
It just seemed odd to me that God would create something knowing, or as you imply, planning that it would be destroyed.
I guess its noy my, or our, place to question Gods plans.

It has nothing to do with technology but with the limits imposed by the laws of physics.

Physics isn’t really my bag, but surely its ‘the laws of physics as far as we know them today.’?
Laws may exist, but doesn’t it take someone to discover them?
Did Galileo have a Law of Gravitation like the one named after Newton?
I guess thats going a bit off-topic though.

Matt


#13

[quote=Stephen-Maguire]Are you saying that the sun is more powerful than God ?
[/quote]

Of course I’m not saying that. I was merely pointing out that if/when the sun blows, or if/when life on Earth is unsustainable, then man ceases to exist. If we believe that God created the sun, then he knew of its end.
Stars have ‘died’ before and I don’t think they took God with them.

what happend at Fatima in front of 70,000 witness’es.
Didn’t Jesus calm the sea of Galilee ? don’t demons submit to His power ?
God controls the Heavens, so whatever God wills, so be it.

Exactly! And if God wills the end of Man then so be it.

Matt


#14

[quote=patg]God set up the natural universe to obey the laws of chemistry, physics, gravity, etc. and God rarely directly intervenes, even to save millions, from either man-made or natural disasters. God may not allow the sun to follow its natural course to demise but we would be foolish to sit around and do nothing to look after ourselves. Followers of God would never buy insurance if that was how we lived.
[/quote]

A Saint once said it would be easier for us to live without the sun than without God, can’t recall which one.
So what if the sun burnt out ? it’s out of our control ? how can you get insurance against that ?
If the sun came crashing to earth we would all be burnt up anyway, no use running for the fire hose, or calling the firebrigade.
As a follower of Christ I believe in the new Heavens and new earth as told to us in the Bible.
God may have setup the universe to obey the laws of chemistry, physics, gravity, etc. but Jesus defied these laws by walking on water, by healing the sick, by raising the dead, and rising from the dead.
Some are so caught up in the physical world that they forget that there is a Spiritual world out there too.

So God Bless interesting subject, but thats my lot on it for now.


#15

[quote=english_matt] …Physics isn’t really my bag, but surely its ‘the laws of physics as far as we know them today.’?
Laws may exist, but doesn’t it take someone to discover them?
Did Galileo have a Law of Gravitation like the one named after Newton? …
[/quote]

There are certain laws of physics which have been proven as absolute. For example, at sea level air pressure pure water will boil at 212 F degrees. No new, yet undiscovered laws of physics can change that. If you add something to the water or change the air pressure, it will boil at a different temperature but pure water at sea level pressure will boil on 212 F degrees.

In the same way, the upper possible speed limits of space travel – unlike Star Trek, faster than light space travel is not possible. We can’t even get anywhere close to it.

The laws of physics restrict how fast something can travel. For example, light is able to travel at 186,282.39704 miles per second because it has no at rest mass. Particles which DO have an at rest mass can not be made to travel as quickly. Electrons have one of the lowest at rest mass of any of the sub-atomic particles and they have been measured to obtain an upper speed of about 78,424.88915 miles per second which is significantly slower than the speed of light.

Once you get into heavier particles, the maximum speed drops off even more. For example, a proton can be accelerated to about 33,016.87833 miles per second. Once it is accelerated beyond that speed it break apart into individual quarks and you no longer have a proton.

Atoms are able to travel even slower at about 13,900.10577 miles per second. If you try to move an atom any faster, it breaks down into sub-atomic particles and you no longer have an atom.

Molocules are even more fragile and can be accelerated to about 5,851.94453 miles per second before they break down to individual atoms. Whole cells have been observed to exist up to 2,463.66864 miles per second before they broke down into individual molocules.

It is estimated that living tissue can withstand speeds of 1,037.2045 miles per second before they begin to degenerate and that is an upper limit. It might actually be a lot less but for arguement’s sake, let’s assume that we humans can endure speeds of about 1,000 miles per second.

At those speeds it would take nearly a century to reach the nearest star which might not even contain planets. To reach a planetary star system might take centuries.


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