The disorder of homosexuality


#1

I heard a priest recently explain that homosexuality is a disorder, like drug addiction, and I agreed with him.
Some people fall into drug addiction because their make-up is such that just a little bit of some drug gets them hooked easily.
They have a propensity in their system to need more and more.
If they lived in a different culture they would not be a drug addict.
I think homosexuality is the same.
Some people may have a slight SSA, and in different cultures it may not rise into a problem. They may suppress that feeling and instead meet a woman and marry and have kids etc. and be perfectly happy.
But in today's culture, they get hooked into the SSA lifestyle that many including the media tell them is OK, and that it is a natural thing that they are born with, and they get hooked into the homosexual lifestyle.
If the same person lived in a quiet pacific island somewhere, or at a different time in history, then they wouldn't have a SSA.
Hence the influx of homosexuality at the moment in our particular culture.
I don't think this applies to all homosexuals, but I think it would apply to many.


#2

As a Father of a Lesbian daughter and a Gay son I think the catholic church teaching is spot on, its the same as what the good priest said, its a disorder.

Secular society would say otherwise but thats just nasty people trying to force their agenda onto the rest of us.

I can't help notice the similarities between my childrens mother who has all sorts of mental health problems and my gay children.

I conclude that Homosexuality is a disorder of the brain.


#3

[quote="Petersmate, post:2, topic:287807"]
As a Father of a Lesbian daughter and a Gay son I think the catholic church teaching is spot on, its the same as what the good priest said, its a disorder.

Secular society would say otherwise but thats just nasty people trying to force their agenda onto the rest of us.

I can't help notice the similarities between my childrens mother who has all sorts of mental health problems and my gay children.

I conclude that Homosexuality is a disorder of the brain.

[/quote]

I'm not sure that the Church teaches that it is a disorder, but rather disordered. Homosexuality is a behavior and not a condition. I'll pray for you and your children.


#4

In 1974 (or so) the American Psychiatric Association held a vote, and in that vote, homosexuality was removed from the list of disorders.

This was not due to new research or findings or conclusions of a scientific nature. Instead, it was due to incessent badgering by the homosexual community.

This is moral relativism at its best. Any and all research into the causes of homosexuality (nurture or nature) are hindered because the APA says that homosexuality is a “natural and positive variation of human sexuality”. Balderdash!

While it is the weak man who would pick on a homosexual for his disability, it is the feeble minded who would accept this clearly abnormal behaviour. Homosexuals deserve our compassion, not our enabling of their self-destructive behaviour.


#5

[quote="DWGarvin, post:4, topic:287807"]
... it is the feeble minded who would accept this clearly abnormal behaviour. Homosexuals deserve our compassion, not our enabling of their self-destructive behaviour.

[/quote]

What if the "feeble-minded" and the "enablers" were the same individuals?


“Previous generations of social experimenters have caused unimaginable misery for millions of people. None of them have ever been held accountable.”


#6

[quote="Petersmate, post:2, topic:287807"]
As a Father of a Lesbian daughter and a Gay son I think the catholic church teaching is spot on, its the same as what the good priest said, its a disorder.

Secular society would say otherwise but thats just nasty people trying to force their agenda onto the rest of us.

I can't help notice the similarities between my childrens mother who has all sorts of mental health problems and my gay children.

I conclude that Homosexuality is a disorder of the brain.

[/quote]

what?? no its not, its GENETIC. its NOT a mental disorder. because of our fallen nature it is very possible to be born gay. some people are born retarded, some people are born with no eyes, others are born into the wrong gender. modern scientific research has shown strong evidence supporting that homosexuality is indeed biological. please educate yourself further on human biology, before making any assumptions.

the catholic church doesnt teach thar homosexuality is a mental disorder. because its not a mental disorder, its a biological disorder.


#7

[quote="someperson555, post:6, topic:287807"]
what?? no its not, its GENETIC. its NOT a mental disorder. because of our fallen nature it is very possible to be born gay. some people are born retarded, some people are born with no eyes, others are born into the wrong gender. modern scientific research has shown strong evidence supporting that homosexuality is indeed biological. please educate yourself further on human biology, before making any assumptions.

the catholic church doesnt teach thar homosexuality is a mental disorder. because its not a mental disorder, its a biological disorder.

[/quote]

Not to fuel the fire (;)), but there is no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is solely genetic.

Even if there were, "genetic" and "mental disorder" are not mutually exclusive realities. There are many mental disorders that have a genetic component.

I'm not sure I agree with the distinction you raise between "mental" and "biological" disorders. Our brain is part of our biology.


#8

[quote="Joe_5859, post:7, topic:287807"]
Not to fuel the fire (;)), but there is no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is solely genetic.

Even if there were, "genetic" and "mental disorder" are not mutually exclusive realities. There are many mental disorders that have a genetic component.

I'm not sure I agree with the distinction you raise between "mental" and "biological" disorders. Our brain is part of our biology.

[/quote]

thats true, i agree that homosexuality is a lot like alcoholism, some alcoholics have a genetic predisposition, but some become alcoholics because of their environment.

well there is a good indication that homosexuality in most cases is genetic, you can even see from their faces that homosexual males have more feminine features and homosexual females have more masculine features.

"mental disorders" are distinct from brain disorders since the mind (soul) is an immaterial thing which is a product of the spirit and physical brain.


#9

[quote="someperson555, post:6, topic:287807"]
what?? no its not, its GENETIC. its NOT a mental disorder. because of our fallen nature it is very possible to be born gay. some people are born retarded, some people are born with no eyes, others are born into the wrong gender. modern scientific research has shown strong evidence supporting that homosexuality is indeed biological. please educate yourself further on human biology, before making any assumptions.

the catholic church doesnt teach thar homosexuality is a mental disorder. because its not a mental disorder, its a biological disorder.

[/quote]

As far as what the Church has said on homosexuality, its psychogenesis is unknown. Sexuality is connected to reproduction and so ordered when a man and a woman unite, an act from which pleasure is also derived. Else, why would man and woman come together, how would the specie and life continue? Not unlike the question to why does one eat? To sustain life with pleasure as secondary benefit, no? Therefore, one has to eat nutritive and not toxic substances to satiety to live.

Homosexuality is disordered in the sense that if acted on, it does not reach the purpose for which the sex organ is primarily intended to be used.

Basing on studies (too many!) on the etiology of homosexuality, the conclusion reached is it is multifactorial: cultural, environmental and genetic. For you to claim it is genetic or only genetic is not accurate. If you can cite an authoritative source, such as the discovery of a gay gene, please provide it. If you cannot, the most you can say is that homosexuality may have a genetic component.
,


#10

[quote="InSearchofGrace, post:9, topic:287807"]
As far as what the Church has said on homosexuality, its psychogenesis is unknown. Sexuality is connected to reproduction and so ordered when a man and a woman unite, an act from which pleasure is also derived. Else, why would man and woman come together, how would the specie and life continue? Not unlike the question to why does one eat? To sustain life with pleasure as secondary benefit, no? Therefore, one has to eat nutritive and not toxic substances to satiety to live.

Homosexuality is disordered in the sense that if acted on, it does not reach the purpose for which the sex organ is primarily intended to be used.

Basing on studies (too many!) on the etiology of homosexuality, the conclusion reached is it is multifactorial: cultural, environmental and genetic. For you to claim it is genetic or only genetic is not accurate. If you can cite an authoritative source, such as the discovery of a gay gene, please provide it. If you cannot, the most you can say is that homosexuality may have a genetic component.
,

[/quote]

i never said that its only genetic (why does everyone always twist the meaning my words on these topics?) :D
i said that homosexuality can have a variety of causes, but its ignorant to just say "well its a mental disorder", when science has proven that its not that simple.
and why are you telling me that homosexuality is "disordered"? i already said that.
and you cannot use the "against nature" argument from a catholic perspective anyway, since then we would be forced to conclude fornication should not be a sin because it fulfills the purpose that sex was intended for.
but we are not arguing about why homosexuality is disordered, we are arguing its cause.
which is both biological and psychological.


#11

[quote="someperson555, post:10, topic:287807"]
i never said that its only genetic (why does everyone always twist the meaning my words on these topics?) :D
i said that homosexuality can have a variety of causes, but its ignorant to just say "well its a mental disorder", when science has proven that its not that simple.
and why are you telling me that homosexuality is "disordered"? i already said that.
and you cannot use the "against nature" argument from a catholic perspective anyway, since then we would be forced to conclude fornication should not be a sin because it fulfills the purpose that sex was intended for.
but we are not arguing about why homosexuality is disordered, we are arguing its cause.
which is both biological and psychological.

[/quote]

Fornication is wrong and sinful, just as homosexual acts are. The latter is wrong on another or additional level. It can never lead to being acceptable in our faith, unless it's acceptable to yours, which is, incidentally, catholic with a lower case c.

Please read up on the fonts of morality and Natural Law. Your misunderstandings are evident with your postings.
,


#12

[quote="someperson555, post:6, topic:287807"]
what?? no its not, its GENETIC. its NOT a mental disorder. because of our fallen nature it is very possible to be born gay. some people are born retarded, some people are born with no eyes, others are born into the wrong gender. modern scientific research has shown strong evidence supporting that homosexuality is indeed biological. please educate yourself further on human biology, before making any assumptions.

the catholic church doesnt teach thar homosexuality is a mental disorder. because its not a mental disorder, its a biological disorder.

[/quote]

Have you read what the Church teaches?

"Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

"But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

"Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be most unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning.

"Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

"For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable "lifestyle" any more than homosexuality is."

Source: Catholic Answers Archive

Peace,
Ed


#13

[quote="DWGarvin, post:4, topic:287807"]
In 1974 (or so) the American Psychiatric Association held a vote, and in that vote, homosexuality was removed from the list of disorders.

This was not due to new research or findings or conclusions of a scientific nature. Instead, it was due to incessent badgering by the homosexual community.

This is moral relativism at its best. Any and all research into the causes of homosexuality (nurture or nature) are hindered because the APA says that homosexuality is a "natural and positive variation of human sexuality". Balderdash!

While it is the weak man who would pick on a homosexual for his disability, it is the feeble minded who would accept this clearly abnormal behaviour. Homosexuals deserve our compassion, not our enabling of their self-destructive behaviour.

[/quote]

That is correct but the date was 1973. See:

amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0465030483

Peace,
Ed


#14

you realise that makes no sense, right?
sexuality is not a result of cognitive conditioning, becasue if you believe that then you cant say that homosexuality is “disordered”, since if sexuality is just a result of mental conditioning, then there is nothing whichs sets heterosexuality above homosexuality.
thats like saying that red is prettier than blue, your opinion is just subjective depending on your cognitive conditioning, so ofcousre we cant say that red is actually prettier than blue.
therefore homosexuality is not a choice or a mere “feeling”.

another argument which totally debunks your post is the existence of homosexual animals. animals are not rational, they are driven completely by their bodily urges, yet we see animals engaging in same sex behaivoir.

and another part of your post which downright absurd is when you say that people "have homosexual fantasies without consciously choosing them, yet its still a choice…"
LOL WHAA?? thats a blatant contradiction right there. since if someone starts to fantasize about homosexual relations without consciously choosing to he obviously has some sort of innate homosexual tendencies.
im guessing youre heterosexual, right. let me ask you, when was the last time you caught yourself fantasizing about other men?
did you ever see a guy in a beer commercial and think to yourself, “wow hes sexy”?
now do you see the absurdity of saying that homosexuality “is a choice”?


#15

[quote="edwest2, post:12, topic:287807"]
Have you read what the Church teaches?

"Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

"But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

"Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be most unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning.

"Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

"For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable "lifestyle" any more than homosexuality is."

Source: Catholic Answers Archive

Peace,
Ed

[/quote]

Thanks Ed, that makes perfect sense. I think most people would agree with that.:thumbsup:


#16

[quote="janman55, post:3, topic:287807"]
I'm not sure that the Church teaches that it is a disorder, but rather disordered. Homosexuality is a behavior and not a condition. I'll pray for you and your children.

[/quote]

Likewise a condition can cause a typical behavior.

Off subject a bit however I will throw in my two cents.

I believe the church "plays it safe" trying to stay inbounds with both scientific studies and in keeping with the bible the act of sex outside of marraige is a mortal sin (the church cannot change this) however being gay with out sexual conduct outside of marraige is ok.

Its complex and confusing.

Here is a insert form the va website.

"In the discussion which followed the publication of the Declaration, however, an overly benign interpretation was given to the homosexual condition itself, some going so far as to call it neutral, or even good. Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder".

For myself I like to keep things simple if I am inclined towards a sinful nature then I should re examine my thought process to bring about change. Your inclination should be towards Holy acts not to be inclined to lean towards unholy acts.


#17

[quote="someperson555, post:14, topic:287807"]
you realise that makes no sense, right?
sexuality is not a result of cognitive conditioning, becasue if you believe that then you cant say that homosexuality is "disordered", since if sexuality is just a result of mental conditioning, then there is nothing whichs sets heterosexuality above homosexuality.

thats like saying that red is prettier than blue, your opinion is just subjective depending on your cognitive conditioning, so ofcousre we cant say that red is actually prettier than blue.
therefore homosexuality is not a choice or a mere "feeling".

another argument which totally debunks your post is the existence of homosexual animals. animals are not rational, they are driven completely by their bodily urges, yet we see animals engaging in same sex behaivoir.

and another part of your post which downright absurd is when you say that people "have homosexual fantasies without consciously choosing them, yet its still a choice..."
LOL WHAA?? thats a blatant contradiction right there. since if someone starts to fantasize about homosexual relations without consciously choosing to he obviously has some sort of innate homosexual tendencies.
im guessing youre heterosexual, right. let me ask you, when was the last time you caught yourself fantasizing about other men?
did you ever see a guy in a beer commercial and think to yourself, "wow hes sexy"?
now do you see the absurdity of saying that homosexuality "is a choice"?

[/quote]

First, I gave you the source and used quote marks to indicate I did not write that. We are not animals and we have wills.

Here is Church teaching:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Peace,
Ed


#18

[quote="Zosimus41, post:16, topic:287807"]

Its complex and confusing.

[/quote]

No its not


#19

[quote="DWGarvin, post:4, topic:287807"]
In 1974 (or so) the American Psychiatric Association held a vote, and in that vote, homosexuality was removed from the list of disorders.

This was not due to new research or findings or conclusions of a scientific nature. Instead, it was due to incessent badgering by the homosexual community.

This is moral relativism at its best. Any and all research into the causes of homosexuality (nurture or nature) are hindered because the APA says that homosexuality is a "natural and positive variation of human sexuality". Balderdash!

While it is the weak man who would pick on a homosexual for his disability, it is the feeble minded who would accept this clearly abnormal behaviour. Homosexuals deserve our compassion, not our enabling of their self-destructive behaviour.

[/quote]

The real story can be found here. Alix Spiegel a radio personality for NPR, her grandfather was a gay psychiatrist that spearheaded this effort. This is how the DSM was changed.

thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/204/81-words


#20

[quote="someperson555, post:6, topic:287807"]
what?? no its not, its GENETIC. its NOT a mental disorder. because of our fallen nature it is very possible to be born gay. some people are born retarded, some people are born with no eyes, others are born into the wrong gender. modern scientific research has shown strong evidence supporting that homosexuality is indeed biological. please educate yourself further on human biology, before making any assumptions.

the catholic church doesnt teach thar homosexuality is a mental disorder. because its not a mental disorder, its a biological disorder.

[/quote]

To the best of my knowledge the human genome project has produced no evidence that there is a gay gene.


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