So I have been trying apologetics with a Protestant friend.
I got stumped when he made the claim that the early church Fathers got it all wrong! :eek: Say what!?
I have attempted to explain the Eucharist to him
as well as describe the Papacy in its biblical basis but to no avail.
He’s Presbyterian and personally believes there are a lot of ‘grey areas’ in the bible.
Note: because he’s an ex catholic I just want to explain the faith in an unbiased and well informed way, perhaps sowing enough seeds to bring him back home.
I have been trying to articulate the fact that if the earliest christians’ understanding of everything was wrong,
this would affect what was recorded in the bible itself, would it not?
the earlest Church leaders-
-1. believed that the earth was flat, 2… that the earth stood still-- 3. the stars and such rotated around the earth-- 4. the earth was the center of the universe-
That all Spiritual understanding flowed from “their understanding” of God and the universe–
so – if you believe that Jesus sent back the Holy Spirit to dwell in you and with you–
there should be a difference in a believer with the Holy Spirit and a Beliver without the Holy Spirit–
— just because some one goes to church “on sunday” because it’s mandatory-- or you have a mortal sin–
and some one else – goes to chruch – where it is not “man-do-tory” and they don;t have a mortal sin – threat–
who 's the rightous one?? as Jesus said about the man that “said God thak you for makeing me NOT like that sinner over there”
VS – the man sthat says’ Lord have mercy on me a sinner
And therefore his own doctrines are based on the misunderstandings of Jesus’ teachings?
In the Roman Catholic Church, a dogma (plural dogmata) is an article of faith revealed by God, which the magisterium of the Church presents as necessary to be believed if one freely chooses to be a Catholic.
 For example, Christian dogma states that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the basic truth from which salvation and life is derived for Christians. Dogmata regulate the language, how the truth of the resurrection is to be believed and communicated. One dogma is only a small particle of the living Christian faith, from which it derives its meaning
. Roman Catholic Dogma is thus: "a truth revealed by God, which the magisterium of the Church declared as binding.
" The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
The Church's Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.
The faithful are required to accept with the divine and Catholic faith all which the Church presents either as solemn decision or as general teaching. Yet not all teachings are dogma. The faithful are only required to accept those teachings as dogma, if the Church clearly and specifically identifies them as infallible dogmata. If a Catholic were to willfully deny any particular dogma they know is taught dogmatically by the Church, they would no longer be a part of the Church, since heresy immediately separates one from the Church.
Not all theological truths are dogmata. The Bible contains many sacred truths, which the faithful recognize and agree with, but which the Church has not defined as dogma. Most Church teachings are not dogma. Cardinal Avery Dulles pointed out that in the 800 pages of the documents of the Second Vatican Council, there is not one new statement for which infallibility is claimed.
Any other tips or ways to get around this? How do I respond to the claim that the earliest Christians got it wrong? Bamboozled.