The elixir of life


#21

Okay Protestantism in Europe and being that I’m Murican I am mostly talking about England is more theologically sophisticated than it is in the United States.

This is because Protestantism in the UK started with Lutheranism and I think there were a few other groups before the Church of England which out of that came Puritanism.

Puritanism is essentially iconoclasm and sola scriptura taken to its most extreme.

This is the spirituality that came from the Pilgrims who predominantly colonized the United States.

So speaking as an American I see that American Christianity was always watered down and clearly as the centuries have gone on has become so diluted it can be hardly described as a religion anymore.

There is something like close to 30,000 to 40000 different denominations of Christianity which are probably predominately in the United States the most Protestant country in the world.

Protestantism started in Europe but there’s still a lot of heavy Catholic and Orthodox Christian influence in those countries and even European Protestantism is more closely related to Apostolic Christianity than it is here in the United States.

So the first part are the problem is Protestantism because it’s the predominant form of Christianity in the Western world and is in theological error.

The second half of it is relativism that with Protestantism as it becomes more diluted and modernized becomes more relativistic.

There is also of course just the problem of relativism all together which is heavily influenced by the Freemasonic sects.

These cults predominantly control the United States government through its various politicians and organizations whose members are part of different Masonic lodges.

So from my vantage point as a citizen of the United States and as a Christian of the Holy Roman Catholic faith I believe that the selling of the elixir of Life Jesus Christ is hard because people do not really know who Christ is, they really do not know what Christianity is, and the truth is so alien to them and so conservative that they outright reject it.


#22

To put it in more simplistic words you can’t sell a product and give people a whole bunch different instruction manuals and tell him it’s the same product.

It’s like selling microwaves and telling one person that it cooks food and the other person that it dries your hair but somehow claim that it’s the same product and the same thing.

Protestantism is solo scriptura the Bible alone but anybody can possess and read a Bible and interpret the Bible and claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit and that’s why there are 30,000 to 40000 different Christian denominations.

There are probably even more so then that when different people have different individual biblical interpretations of the scriptures.

Protestants have this sort of vague notion that they are all the same, they are all equals, and are all Christian even though none of them agree with one another.

Would you listen to a Christian when every other Christian disagrees with one another and there’s probably a hundred different churches with different theology and worship styles alone in your city?

People don’t like contradiction and while Christianity isn’t the only religion that has different denominations and sects it is the most controversial religion.

The devil did a real number on the Church when he introduced the Reformation because as Abraham Lincoln says a house divided cannot stand.

Our Lord gave similar parables and that’s why I think it’s so hard to sell the elixir of life.


#23

Wow. Thank you.

It all seemed so simple, love God with all your being and love your neighbour as yourself.

What happened?


#24

Christianity got shattered a little bit at a time first with the schisms and second with the reformation and third with what some people have dubbed the spirit of Vatican II.


#25

Before you posted “In a world where our beliefs are all we know and are mirrors and illusions in themselves”. So you are saying that our beliefs are not real. I think you answered your own question.


#26

We do have an elixir of eternal life, the body and blood of Christ and we have access to it at the very least on Sundays… it’s even free.


#27

I suggest @Lee1 that this “season” we are in now , Advent/Christmastide , is a perfect symbol of where we go wrong .

I remember when I was younger , going back 60 years and more , there was then a campaign to “Put Christ Back into Christmas” .

The campaign still goes on , but we tend to give up , accept things as they are and go with the flow .

At Christmas in 1998 Cardinal Hume said “What is there in that for me ? That is a very modern question, a self-regarding view from persons absorbed in self.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/242149.stm

Jesus said that a necessity for one following Him was self denial .

“If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me."

image


#28

I wonder if it has more to do with skepticism, lack of evidence and lack of relevance for right here and now. Our culture is fast food sound byte immediate gratification. Heaven for many is pie in the sky fantasy even though they might still go to church with family. I think the life and mission of Jesus were just as much about the quality of our lives now here on earth as about anything eternal. So evangelization needs to show the evidence of a higher quality of life here and now.


#29

Yes. And the lives of saints are an inspiration for spiritual growth.


#30

I agree, very much so. If you imagine a world where the precepts of our faith are applied and acted upon we would have a less stressful and peaceful world in which to live …right now, today.

Since we can’t have instant gratification concerning the highest matierial wants it would make far more sense to adopt a less demanding philosophy. Doing that may actually mean that more people have their most basic needs satisfied since you could imagine resources being spread more evenly in the world.

I suppose it will take a miracle to convince enough people to abandon their materialistic aspirations. We can’t prove that heaven exists but we can surely show evidence of the greater physical and mental health to be gained from living as a Christian and as a Catholic, perhaps? I wonder if there have been any studies on such a thing.


#31

Definately, I’m wondering if apart from saints whether we can gain inspriation from the lives of modern living monks, nuns and religious? Perhaps also from the lives of good Catholics, the laity who have found a peaceful and healthier way to live with God today?


#32

Yes. Like St Paul said: ‘test everything, then hold on to what is good.’


#33

We have many Indian and Philippino parishioners too I love our rainbow church xx


#34

Hi! Some of the things you all are writing about reminds me of some of the things that St. Augustine talks about in his “Confessions.” Not much has changed in the last 1000 or so years. Anyway, when I first posted I mentioned that I am a new Catholic and have much to learn. When I was in RCIA in 2014 -2015 as a catechumen, I learned a little about Vatican II. My understanding was that the purpose of Vatican II was to clean up the church because as it spread across the world it became more complicated and looked less like the church that was set up by Christ. So, is what you call the “spirit of Vatican II” different than what the reality of Vatican II was meant to be? I would appreciate your wisdom on the matter. Thanks!


#35

It’s kinda of complicated but basically a lot of the theology and traditions that made Roman Catholics, Roman or Latin Rite were diluted for a more contemporary approach.

If you can go to a Latin Mass both a High Mass and a Low Mass and then go to an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy.

If you can’t go to an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy go to an Orthodox Christian Church but make sure you don’t receive communion and make your Sunday obligation either later that day or the night before.

Go a few times too and ask lots of questions.

Once you have this experience and you immerse yourself in the ancient liturgy you will understand part of what I’m talking about.

Mostly I’m talking about Protestantism on here.

The other issue that comes to mind comes from scripture.

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world, by wisdom, knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of our preaching, to save them that believe. 22 For both the Jews require signs, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness: 24 But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


#36

I’m wondering if I’ve made myself clear, I think perhaps I haven’t. When I’m talking about beliefs not being real I’m not talking about Catholicism or Christianity I’m referring to our societal beliefs, what secular people think of as the point of life, if they have any point of life at all.

Aspirations regarding material gain etc.

That may explain why I haven’t received many posts on this topic!

I did say belief in the real elixir of life.


#37

It’s going to be a tough sell as the efficacy can only be shown after the first death. Plus, not all of us want to live forever


#38

Mathew 6

24 No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.


#39

Thank you Vico

I agree with the verse but could you explain a little

In what way are you using it to say something?


#40

If is an answer to your question: “why should it be so hard to ‘sell’ belief in the real ‘elixir’ of life?” because that is of God and what is commonly sold is of mammon (riches).


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