The Eucharist for those who don't believe it is Jesus

Israel had sacrifices or offerings. One of those was thanksgiving offering. It included burning a lamb on an altar, than eating its flesh. The lamb was a real lamb, not a symbol of a lamb. The Jews believed that in the messanic age, all sacrifices would cease save for the thanksgiving offering, which would go on forever. Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God. At the last Passover, He instituted the Eucharist. “Eucharistia” is Greek for “Todha,” which is Hebrew for thank offering. He, the Messiah, perpetuated the thanksgiving offering. He, the Lamb of God, died on the Cross as the thanksgiving offering. He, as the Lamb of God, is eaten in the Eucharist.

If He is not sacrificed and eaten, than He is not the Lamb of God. If He is not the Lamb, than He cannot make the thanksgiving offering go on forever. If He cannot perpetuate the thanksgiving offering, than He did not fulfill one of the messanic prophecies. If He did not fulfill one of the messanic prophecies, than He is not the Messiah.

Agreed, the Scriptures make it clear that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is truly present in, with, and under the bread and wine. It’s not symbolism, it’s truly our Savior. :slight_smile:

“At the last Passover…”??

I’m reasonably sure it wasn’t the last Passover. It may have been celebrated since then.

Regarding “Lamb of God”: Jesus is not really a lamb, though, is he? That, in itself, is a symbolic construct.
That’s why I don’t think you can have two-bob each way–accepting symbolism here but insisting on literalness there.

…peace be with you…really…

…i am confused…as a matter of faith, i accept the words of Jesus, “…this is My body…this is My blood…”…transmutation is not a problem for me anymore than the miracle at cana…my difficulty comes from equating body/blood of the Eucharist to the Person of Jesus Who is in union with the Father and the Holy Spirit…that is to say, His body/blood/soul/Divinity…

…my difficulty comes from many sources:

…Christ indicates, “…only God is good…”
…Christ does not say, “this is my body/blood/soul/& Divinity” at the last supper…
…Christ indicates, “…do this in memory of Me…” not "…do this and I become what you eat…
…Christ indicates following the resurrection (after the last supper but before the ascension), “…do not touch me…”

…there are many other sources that trouble me, some of which i cannot list because of my understanding of how i must practice my faith…for now, i do not feel worthy to accept Eucharist in the traditional manner until this issue is resolved…during mass, i send my guardian angel to “fetch” Eucharist for me if it is God’s will hoping/praying to be fed spiritually in this way while i pray in the pew…my parish priest says this is a “beautiful devotion” in faith…for now, it is the only manner i have to resolve my ignorance and/or paricipate in the celebration of Eucharist…

…peace—>mark

…please pray for me…this is an important issue for me…peace—>mark

“At the last Passover…”??

I’m reasonably sure it wasn’t the last Passover. It may have been celebrated since then.

The words of the last supper clearly read that Jesus said this is the new covenant, replacing the old, do this in memory of me. That does not mean to think about Him, it means to renew the covenant. That is what takes place in the Eucharistic celebration.

Regarding “Lamb of God”: Jesus is not really a lamb, though, is he? That, in itself, is a symbolic construct.
That’s why I don’t think you can have two-bob each way–accepting symbolism here but insisting on literalness there

He most definitely said in John 6 that He is the Lamb of God! The Book of revelation mentions Jesus as the Lamb about 28 times if I’m not mistaken. How is this symbolic???

Matthew 26
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, 16 and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you,
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
29 I tell you, from now on I shall not drink this fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father.”

“Since He Himself has declared and said of the bread: This is My Body, who shall dare to doubt any more? When He asserts and says: This is My Blood, who shall ever hesitate and say it is not His Blood?”
– Saint Cyril, Bishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church, circa A.D. 347

**Read John 6 in it’s entirety, several times.
**
The only place in Sacred Scripture where disciples walk away from Jesus is John 6:66. If Jesus was speaking symbolically, He surely would have said ‘wait guys, come back’, but He says instead;

**"After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” **70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him. (Jn 6:66-71).

Earlier in John 6:51 Jesus says; " I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh." If He is speaking symbolically, then the Crucifixion is only symbollic and we are all fools!
**
“For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” (2 Peter 1:16).**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

Lapey, it’s symbolism because Jesus is not a woolly little quadruped who came out of a ewe’s tummy. He’s a symbolic lamb, not a real one.

…peace be with you…i remain confused…

…peace—>mark

What’s the point of trying to have a serious conversation here? You have to be joking with this response. And you have yourself listed as Catholic? I am not your enemy, if I implied that then I am sorry. But I don’t believe I wrote anything that is contrary to Church teaching or scripture. Don’t believe I deserved the sarcastic and condescending response you posted.

Please look past your nose and see the richness of your faith, allow truth to enter your hard heart and you too will see the truth of the Eucharist!

It’s not symbolism in the perspective of the scriptures. In the Passover narrative in Exodus, was the lamb symbolic? Was the angel of death symbolic? Surely God didn’t kill the first born of all who didn’t take the word of Moses literally right?

I assure you He did!

Was it good enough to just sacrifice the lamb and put the blood of the lamb on the door post? Sure it was because it was only a symbol of faith right? One could have taken a one year old, unblemished lamb, without broken bones, and sacrifice it then place the blood on the door post and lintel then go to bed and wake up in the morning and all would be good, right? WRONG! They had to EAT THE LAMB!

Jesus came to bring us the new covenant, “the new and everlasting covenant.” In John 6;53 He plainly states that if you don’t eat His flesh and drink His blood you have no life within you. That is meant and taken literally. The Apostles may not have understood what He meant any more than we do, but they did not turn away from this difficult teaching.

There is a book by Scott Hahn, “The Lambs Supper”. Scott Hahn is a former Protestant minister who set out with his vast knowledge of scripture to “prove the Catholic Church wrong.” The result of his venture was to prove the Church was right and he converted in the early eighties. Google his conversion story, it evolved around the Eucharistic celebration of the mass. I would suggest all of you who doubt what the Church has always professed as truth, the Eucharist is the Lamb of God-Jesus, get a copy of this book and a bible and sit at your desk and start reading. When he references scripture, turn to it and read it in the context of it’s placement in the story. See what the word has for you.

There are many answers in the word, but as verse 63 or 64 reads (don’t have my bible with me) “the words I speak to you are spirit and life” it takes more than our human ability to see the truth in His words. It takes supernatural grace, which demands openness, just as Peter and the rest of the twelve, they didn’t understand but they knew to trust in Him.

I choose to trust in His word. I know I am in the minority within the Catholic Church that believes this teaching. Recent studies show that the majority of Catholics, let alone non Catholics, do not believe in the real presence. I guess some things never change, see most didn’t believe the words of Jesus then either, and they turned away and went back to their former way of life. To understand the Eucharist is to understand what He says in John 6;56, “whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in Me and I in him.” It means making drastic changes in our lives. It means dying to self and, to steal a Protestant phrase, be born again in Christ; those who left that day, like the “rich young man” of last Sunday’s gospel, were not ready to give up the world to seek the Kingdom of God.

This teaching is hard, but it’s been truth since He said it!

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