The Father and the Trinity


#1

I have read that the Father is the “Source” of the Trinity. God (in Three Divine Persons) has no beginning and no end. How can these two statements be reconciled?


#2

[quote=AJV]I have read that the Father is the “Source” of the Trinity. God (in Three Divine Persons) has no beginning and no end. How can these two statements be reconciled?
[/quote]

Yes.

Picture a flame. A flame, from the moment it exists, gives off light and heat. There is never a moment when the flame existed that it wasn’t giving off light and heat. Yet, did the flame precede the light and heat?

I recommend that you go and read the Catechism on this.


#3

God is eternal. He does not exist in time. The father, from eternity, (meaning there is no beginning point to this) knows himself.

And in knowing himself, generates an idea of himself, which is so perfect that it contains every perfection of the Father, We call this the Word, or the Son; the Father from all eternity speaking His essence.

The Father and the Son, from all eternity (without a beginning point) love each other. That exchange of love is so perfect as to generate a third Person, the Holy Spirit. There is no time interval involved.


#4

Thanks for the answers. I’m trying to explain this to someone, butits sort of difficult.


#5

[quote=RobNY]Yes.

Picture a flame. A flame, from the moment it exists, gives off light and heat. There is never a moment when the flame existed that it wasn’t giving off light and heat. Yet, did the flame precede the light and heat?

I recommend that you go and read the Catechism on this.
[/quote]

I love this example, I have to remember it.
I saw a similar (but not as good as yours) example from Augustine’s letter to some soon to be converts:8…“When is it possible for a father to be found coeval [ie same age] with his son, or son coeval with his father? That the father may beget he goes before in age; that the son may be begotten, he comes after in age: but this father coeval with son, or son with father, how can it be?”

Imagine to yourselves fire as father, its shining as son; see, we have found the coevals. From the instant that the fire begins to be, that instant it begets the shining: neither fire before shining, nor shining after fire. And if we ask, which begets which? the fire the shining, or the shining the fire?

Immediately ye conceive by natural sense, by the innate wit of your minds ye all cry out, The fire the shining, not the shining the fire. Lo, here you have a father beginning; lo, a son at the same time, neither going before nor coming after. Lo, here then is a father beginning, lo, a son at the same time beginning.


#6

[quote=JimG]God is eternal. He does not exist in time. The father, from eternity, (meaning there is no beginning point to this) knows himself.

And in knowing himself, generates an idea of himself, which is so perfect that it contains every perfection of the Father, We call this the Word, or the Son; the Father from all eternity speaking His essence.

The Father and the Son, from all eternity (without a beginning point) love each other. That exchange of love is so perfect as to generate a third Person, the Holy Spirit. There is no time interval involved.
[/quote]

No matter how many times I hear this I cannot understand (then again why should I be meant to understand?)

It is so hard to grapple with the thought that the Son is just an “idea”, albeit a perfect one. Or that the Holy Spirit is just “love” between the Father and an “idea” he had. Ooh, it’s difficult thinking beyond 3 dimensions isn’t it?


#7

“Idea” is a human term, so keep in my that as applied to God it’s only an analogy. Generating “ideas” is what we do with our minds. Ideas are not material. I have an idea of myself, and it is distinct from myself, but it’s imperfect. It’s not an exact idea of me. But God can’t do anything imperfectly. His idea of himself is a perfect reflection of himself–a distinct person, while not possessing a distinct nature.

Two persons loving one another can produce another person–even humanly speaking. This is analogous to the love between the Father and the Son.


#8

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