the five solas unbiblical

I don’t believe the five solas are grounded in scripture. Before I give my defense, I would be curious to find out what others think. Its interesting to me that historically, and theologically, each of the five is a direct repudiation of a specific catholic doctrine. I will give my evidence later, meanwhile. if ye wish, what say ye?

Is Sola Gratia really against Catholic teaching? I’ve heard otherwise. But yes the others are unbiblical. Ironic for a belief system that claims foundation on the Bible;)

I would like to know what you mean by “the five solas?” This is fairly new to me. Thanks

Arnold

Unless I misunderstand how “sola gratia” is interpreted; this does not conflict with Catholicism.

Here’s what the Cathechism has to say.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm

I offer revision:
sola fide, and sola scriptura, are unbiblical, and against christian orthodoxy, at least prior to the reformation. The others are more or less true to varying degrees. However, trying to maintain all five leads to irreconcilable contradictions with the bible, and amongst each of the solas.

As has been said, sola gracia is Catholic. As for sola fide, if properly understood, it too is quite biblical and Catholic, though Catholics understandably don’t use the term. See the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, etc. As for Christ alone, I’m not sure why a Catholic would object to that, either, so I look forward to hearing your evidence that our salvation is not directly the result of Christ’s suffering, death and ressurection.

Regarding sola scriptura, you are right, it is not explicit in scripture, as it is certainly a practice of the Church using scripture as the norm to hold all teachers and teaching accountable, and applies to the post-apostolic era.

Jon

Hi Jon, How it going? Are you getting rain. I just came home from Florida and the rain followed me:(

I want to take a stab at what you said. Christ alone is our salvation. I have to say at first Yes and then it gets a little iffy. Here is why.

At first we need to be saved from Original Sin, Yes it was all Christ 100%. Alone Case Closed.

But then if we do not die after our Baptism then something happens. If we SIN it becomes Christ and Us together. Here is why.

He gave us free will. to accept him or reject him. Christ died for all. BUT WE have to accept him. if we reject him guess what? :crying: We are not getting in.

OR if we refuse to repent our sin just like Adam and Eve screwed up in the beginning we will be left alone with Christ also.

So it is not Christ alone anymore its his Grace given freely to us, but its us accepting it and using it. I would say it becomes a package deal:D

THe bible says Abraham our Father WAS justified by WORDS when he offfered his SON ISAAC upon the altar. You see that faith was ACTIVE WITH HIS WORKS.

The bible states DO you want proof you ignoramus that faith without works is USELESS?

The bible says a person is justified by WORKS and not Faith alone.

Now did Jesus make it POSSIBLE for us to have faith and works. Of course. But he did not do it all for us. He could have. But he wanted US to have free will to choice.

To say Christ alone would mean everyone gets it would it not?:confused: Because if all it took was Christ dying on the Cross for us to enter heaven EVERYONE gets in.:shrug:

depends on what their interpetation of 5 solas are.

for example I know many people who embrace this notion, yet continue to live in sin without any repentence, for they feel they are saved no matter what.

these people openly and repeatly lie, cheat, live in sin with their lovers, yet clutch their Bibles and claim they are going strait to heaven because they were once saved:rolleyes: always saved.

Hi rinnie,
We got some rain over Monday and Tuesday, but not as much as expected here where I live. Sprinkling a little today - and much cooler.

Yes, I see what you are saying. We do come from a different perspective when considering our role. As a Lutheran, I would rather say that free will enters the picture only after justification by grace through faith in Christ. That is to say, I cannot come to Christ of my own free will. Clearly, after regeneration, I have free will to reject grace. But whether or not I continue to receive or choose to reject, salvation is by Christ alone. There is no other source of salvation. I depend on the Holy Spirit to help me to continue to receive Him.

Jon

Lutherans usually claim three solas: Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, and Sola Scriptura.
Sola Gratia - we are saved by the Grace of God through our faith in Christ and His Death on the cross. It is this free gift of righteousness that we can stand before God in our sins. Can Roman Catholics object to this?
Sola Fide - it is through faith in Christ that we receive this free gift of righteousness from God. How can Roman Catholics object?
Sola Scriptura - the Scripture is the only foundation for faith and practice. The Church Fathers and Tradition are not to be held equal with Scripture but only for good order in the Church.
The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod statement on Scripture Alone is: The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod believes that “Scripture alone” is compromised when the inerrancy of the Bible is denied, and this in turn endangers both "by grace alone "and “through faith alone”.

hn160:

Sola Scriptura - the Scripture is the only foundation for faith and practice. The Church Fathers and Tradition are not to be held equal with Scripture but only for good order in the Church.

Sorry,but the above statement is very false. First,no where did the early church or scripture teach scripture is the only foundation for faith and practice.That belief is an invention brought on way after the early church and fathers.Where does scripture explicitly or implicitly teach such a premise? Second, it is also a false premise to believe Tradition is less than Scripture. Both Scripture and Tradition go hand-in-hand. Scripture is not in direct competition with Tradition or vice versa. Third, unfortunately many non-Catholics hold on to such a belief,which is not true at all.

Well, TECHNICALLY Catholics could accept faith alone, christ alone, and grace alone. I know there is scripture alone, but what’s the other one?

But normally, I think Catholics could only accept grace alone.

Exactly. The Bible is a part of Tradition if I’m not mistaken.

This is borrowed from Pastor William Weedom:
The “Lutheran” Solas in the Fathers of the Church

By William Weedon

Some Fathers on Sola Scriptura:

"The holy and inspired Scriptures are fully sufficient for the proclamation of the truth. St. Athanasius (Against the Heathen, I:3)

“Regarding the things I say, I should supply even the proofs, so I will not seem to rely on my own opinions, but rather, prove them with Scripture, so that the matter will remain certain and steadfast.” St. John Chrysostom (Homily 8 On Repentance and the Church, p. 118, vol. 96 TFOTC)

“Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words.” St. Gregory of Nyssa (On the Holy Trinity, NPNF, p. 327).

“We are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings.” St. Gregory of Nyssa (On the Soul and the Resurrection NPNF II, V:439)

“What is the mark of a faithful soul? To be in these dispositions of full acceptance on the authority of the words of Scripture, not venturing to reject anything nor making additions. For, if ‘all that is not of faith is sin’ as the Apostle says, and ‘faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God,’ everything outside Holy Scripture, not being of faith, is sin.” Basil the Great (The Morals, p. 204, vol 9 TFOTC).

“We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture.” St. Basil the Great (On the Holy Spirit, Chapter 7, par. 16)

For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless you receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures. St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures, IV:17, in NPNF, Volume VII, p. 23.)

Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God. St. Augustine (De unitate ecclesiae, chp. 10)

I agree but what happens after we have this Justification by Grace through Christ. Thats Baptism in the Catholic Church. Original sin, your slate is wiped clean. Its over you are saved.

Ah, but now comes the big problem. What about after Christ did it all, saved you from Original sin and you commit actual sin.

Ah again Christ did it all. He gave you the Church, the sacraments, the Priest who has the authority to speak in his name, to forgive that sin. ANY sin. Except to not believe but then again you would not trust God or a Priest then so thats void.

But now what. How about actual sin. What happens then? God confessed your sin for you? SEE my Point.

So did Christ do it all? DId he say YOU do not have to repent? If Christ did it all its over. You have to do nothing. Someone doing everything for you means you have to DO NOTHING.

You forgot to mention works of the Holy Spirit (although you implied it :thumbsup:).

That’s all very interesting but where are your verses from scripture, that show that scripture says, that scripture is the only or main source of truth for the Christian?

Yes, When I speak of God, Jesus, the Father, The Holy Spirit they are all made up into One God. Alot of times I speak of God as Jesus, Sometimes as the Holy Spirit. sometimes as the Father.

But what my point is while I agree man can never accomplish the righteousness of God. We are obligated to welcome the works that have been planted into us by God.

If you believe and obey him you are obligated to do so. But he did give us everything. And part of that everythng is indeed free will.

James talks alot about this in his gospel. He tells us to be doers not hearers. He said a man who hears the word of God but does not DO the word of God is like a Man who looks at himself in the mirror. He sees himself and then forgets what he looks like.

The gospel of James explains if you are not a Doer of the word you are deluding yoursleves.

He goes on to talk about gossip etc. He says people who know their faith but do not practice it, his religion is in vain.

I think that proves that while God made ALL possible for us, he did not DO it all for us, because if he did would that not contradict the word of God.

How could our religion be in vain if God did everything for us.

God indeed put us here for one reason, to DO his work. Not be robots, he did not program us to not have a mind, a heart and a soul. He gave us everything but he did not DO everything for us. He only made it POSSIBLE for us to DO what we are called to do.

We were all created equal. We all received the same Grace from him. But we either grew in that Grace and in doing so by accepting that Grace we received more. Or we rejected that Grace and let it die and like a plant that is never fed or watered it died.

It is not fair to take anything away from Christ, but it is also not fair to say Christ did everything FOR us. Because he did not. He asks us to do our part also. If Christ DID everything for us, we would be perfect, without sin. He would be in complete control over us at all times. Not that he Can’t. But he just won’t.

He loves us enough to let us make our own choices. Like a Child, when that Child enters a certain age the parent like GOD must let go, must let the Child choose what he wants, who he wants to be. And while this never changes the Love a Parent has for the Child, it shows you that the Parent who is a good parten will NOT control the Child. God is the same way. He loves us. gives us everything we NEED, not Want. But we must ask, we must TRUST, we must OBEY. Those are all WORKS.

We must Repent, God does not repent our sins for us, God does not obey for us, God does not CHOOSE for us. He puts what is right in our heart, but we have to do our part.

While I agree again everything GOOD comes from God. He still makes us WORK for it. Just because he made it possible, does not mean we all take what is given and use it. Just because he died on the Cross for our sins, does not mean we will go to heaven,.

While he indeed paid for every sin, he does not repent that sin we commit. He died for it, and by his death he took away Original sin as I stated, we could not REPENT Original sin. But we MUST repent Actual sin.

That is the big problem between Catholic’s and other faiths. They say Jesus died on the cross and freed us from all sin. He did not. He freed us from Original sin, And by his death he made it possible for us to REPENT Actual sin and be forgiven for that so we can enter heaven.

So in order to say Christ did it all for us, they would have to show me HOW we can enter heaven without REPENTING ACTUAL SIN. If they can show me we do not have to do the WORK or repenting, they win and they are correct. If they cannot they are wrong and the Church is right.

The above quotes are evidently taken out-of-context as usual by many SS advocates. None of the above ever wrote in defense of SS or advocating it.

How were they taken out of context?

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