The fullness of the Crucifix


#1

The cross is the symbol used by non-Catholic Christians, the Crucifix is the symbol used by Catholics.

Just as a cross is incomplete without the figure of Jesus, so also are non-Catholic Christians incomplete in the fullness of Jesus. The Crucifix contains the fullness of Jesus sacrifice, just as the Catholic Church contains the fullness of Jesus’ presence.


#2

Not a bad analogy…


#3

You couldn’t get it more wrong. The symbol of the Cross does not have Jesus on it do remind us that not only Jesus died once to clear us from every single sin but also he arose from the grave and now sits at the right hand of God.

Anyway it doesn’t matter what symbol you use. It is not this piece of wood you use as a symbol that is important but the death of our Lord Jesus. Keep yourself away from idols.


#4

[quote=chrisg93]The cross is the symbol used by non-Catholic Christians, the Crucifix is the symbol used by Catholics.
[/quote]

Or… The Crucifix is the symbol of the sacrifice, and the cross is the symbol of the resurrection.

My (very Catholic) church has a cross sans Corpus behind the altar, over the Tabernacle.


#5

You couldn’t get it more wrong. The symbol of the Cross does not have Jesus on it do remind us that not only Jesus died once to clear us from every single sin but also he arose from the grave and now sits at the right hand of God.

Homer,

The use of a cross to crucify criminals by the Romans were common before Jesus time. If you just use the empty cross, you may get a different meaning, but if you use a cross with Jesus figure in it–we are reminded of His love for us. Remember, there would have been no Easter without Good Friday first. It’s only three days apart.

Pio


#6

[quote=Timidity]Or… The Crucifix is the symbol of the sacrifice, and the cross is the symbol of the resurrection.

My (very Catholic) church has a cross sans Corpus behind the altar, over the Tabernacle.
[/quote]

Well, I hope it has a crucifix somewhere …

GIRM

  1. There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. It is appropriate that such a cross, which calls to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord, remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations.
    (Emphasis added)

Blessings,

Gerry


#7

[quote=homer]You couldn’t get it more wrong. The symbol of the Cross does not have Jesus on it do remind us that not only Jesus died once to clear us from every single sin but also he arose from the grave and now sits at the right hand of God.

Anyway it doesn’t matter what symbol you use. It is not this piece of wood you use as a symbol that is important but the death of our Lord Jesus. Keep yourself away from idols.

[/quote]

Actually, protestants don’t have crucifixes because they wanted to get rid of EVERY holy riminding image that was carved to look like something. Two planks of wood were quilified for them. The crucifix reminds us that Christ went through the WORST way to die back then. It reminds us of how he suffered to save us, and it symbolizes his descent into hell to free those who believed (not the hell of the damned, I mean the “limbo” type of place because heaven wasn’t opened). We do focus on the resurrection. We take 50 days to do that! But there is no resurrection without a crucifixion. The cross doesn’t depict the crucifixion at all, just a cross. I can’t imagine the suffering that Jesus went through when I look at a cross, unless, of course, I invisioned Jesus’ body upon it. Try it some time, try to think about Jesus’ very suffering while he was alive upon a cross and see if you can’t do it without having to invision his body, writhing, bloody, torn up, on the cross. Also, it represents what we must do for him, since he did this for us. No, I don’t mean be crucified on a cross, physically, but spiritually. He told us in the gospels that who holds their family, job, money, house, car, etc., anything above him, their not worthy of him, but he told us to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow him. Our lives are supposed to be, in a sense, our very own via dolorosa. We have to follow Christ, wherever he would have us go, through suffering, through good times, and even to the end. The crucifix is to remind us that the crucifix itself, represents the end. We must follow him to the point of death for his name. The perfect example of this is the martyrs. Remember, it’s not an idol, it’s a reminder.


#8

HEY, WHAT ABOUT GOOD FRIDAY!!! :smiley:

WE VENERATE THE CROSS, NOT THE CRUCIFIX ON THAT DAY, that is, if you go to the liturgy! :thumbsup:


#9

C’mon, boys and girls! :slight_smile:

It’s not an either/or thing! One doesn’t have to be “superior” to the other. It is a SYMBOL. Symbols are rooted in the reality for which they stand. A cross with a corpus - a crucifix - reminds of of one set of truths about Jesus the Christ. A cross without a corpus reminds of *another * set of truths about Jesus the Christ. BOTH are true. BOTH are things that we need to remember.

Saying that it HAS to be one OR the other is misleading and leads us to make an unbalanced approach to truths that are complementary to each other, NOT mutually exclusive of each other! It’s kinda like the old faith versus works issue many Protestants want to argue about. WE know it’s not a competition and that it’s EITHER faith OR works that make up the plan of salvation. WE know faith and works are not mutually exclusive concepts. We know that they are bound together and are complementary to each other. To try to separate them gives the wrong message, and is a red herring obscuring the totality of the truth.

Same with this deal about cricifix versus plain cross. It ain’t one oe the other. BOTH represent truth.


#10

[quote=Gerry Hunter]Well, I hope it has a crucifix somewhere
[/quote]

It’s carried in during the procession, in accordance with the GIRM.


#11

*** But we preach Christ crucified 1Cr 1:23***

This passage demonstrates the superiority and truth of the Crucifix as a symbol of Jesus as told by St Paul.

A cross is not Christ crucified. An empty cross is a denial of the Biblical truth of Christ Crucified.


#12

Not that I get offended at someone wearing a plain Cross… hey…I can at least identify their faith…

But to get technical…

Paul-Corinthians: We preach Christ CRUCIFIED

The plain Cross is NOT a symbol of the resurrection…the EMPTY TOMB is. :slight_smile:


#13

[quote=Faithful 2 Rome]Not that I get offended at someone wearing a plain Cross… hey…I can at least identify their faith…

But to get technical…

Paul-Corinthians: We preach Christ CRUCIFIED

The plain Cross is NOT a symbol of the resurrection…the EMPTY TOMB is. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

CAN you identify their faith by the look of the cross? I odn’t think so. I know Latin Catholics who have worn plain crosses and not crucifixes. I have known Eastern Catholics (who, of course, are in communion with the See of Rome), and Eastern Orthodox ALL wear plain crosses rather than crucifixes. Maybe nobody YOU know does that, but those who wear cricifixes are NOT all there is.

Paul in Corinthians said we preach Christ crucified. But how many other times doe Paul remind his readers of the veracity of the resurrection? Many, many times. One mention to the Corinthians doesn’t really mean the totality of the message of the Christ Story is the crucifixion.

And, of course, what a cross or crucifix symbolizes to you is just fine. Not a problem at all, to be sure. But the meaning of symbols for others is not something that can be settled by you, or anyone else. Further, when talking of symbols, it’s harder to make a graphic representation of an empty tomb to hang around your neck than it is to make an empty cross to remind one of the same fact. :slight_smile:


#14

Please…stop splitting hairs…too many on this board do that.
When I say knowing what “faith” they are… a little common sense means CHRISTIAN FAITH…not RELIGIOUS FAITH

I dont care about being concerned if they are eastern, western, latin, etc…they’re Christians…Christians wear crosses as well as Crucifixes…

I dont care to play the “devolve a thread into mountains of semantical readings” accompanied by tons of biblical text… that happen SO OFTEN here on the EASIESTof explainable things.


#15

[quote=Faithful 2 Rome]Please…stop splitting hairs…too many on this board do that.
When I say knowing what “faith” they are… a little common sense means CHRISTIAN FAITH…not RELIGIOUS FAITH

I dont care about being concerned if they are eastern, western, latin, etc…they’re Christians…Christians wear crosses as well as Crucifixes…

I dont care to play the “devolve a thread into mountains of semantical readings” accompanied by tons of biblical text… that happen SO OFTEN here on the EASIESTof explainable things.
[/quote]

Explainable must be the key word here, because I have to admit I see more argument on the EASIESTof explainable things as you say then on some of the dogma and doctrine issues. Interesting!:hmmm:


#16

[quote=homer]You couldn’t get it more wrong. The symbol of the Cross does not have Jesus on it do remind us that not only Jesus died once to clear us from every single sin but also he arose from the grave and now sits at the right hand of God.
[/quote]

When Jesus was taken down from the cross, it is most likely that they took the beam down while he was still nailed to it and then pulled out the nails. The Cross would have been dismantled soon after his death. When I look at the cross I see the Roman punishment for capitol offenses. A symbol of torture, death, and defeat, until I see Jesus hanging on it. What is the point of a cross if Jesus is not hanging on it?


#17

[quote=homer] Keep yourself away from idols.
[/quote]

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.” (John 3:14-15)

I consider the brazen serpent the very first crucifix.


#18

originally posted by Corpus Cristi

Actually, protestants don’t have crucifixes because they wanted to get rid of EVERY holy riminding image that was carved to look like something. Two planks of wood were quilified for them. The crucifix reminds us that Christ went through the WORST way to die back then. It reminds us of how he suffered to save us, and it symbolizes his descent into hell to free those who believed

I agree. I think Catholics view the crucifixtion as something profitable to meditate on because it reminds us of how much He loves us because just look how much He choose to suffer to save us. It is not surprising that Catholics who partake the body of Christ literally, would have the “body of Christ” fully present on the Crucifix.

I also think Catholics as a whole try not to whitewash Christ’s Passion. I have not yet met a Catholic, (Not saying they are not out there:) ), but I have not met a Catholic who saw the movie “The Passion of Christ” who thought the movie went “over the top” in it’s violent depiction. (I have met Catholics who choose not to see the movie because they said they did not know if they could focus on Christ’s love for us and not their own guilt at having caused His suffering.) I have met many Protestants who think it was too much. Why did it need to be that way? It was overly bloody.:confused: My thought is: You think Christ’s Passion, the agony in the garden, the scourging, the crowning, the carrying of the cross and the crucifixtion was a pretty sight with just a little blood? He did take on the sins of the whole world. It was bound to be a little past the ordinary.

While I do know Many, Many Protestants who embraced “The Passion of Christ” for what it was meant to portray, My personal observation has shown me that more Protestants are uncomfortable with the reality of the Passion of Christ (movie or no movie) than Catholics. It would follow that more Protestants are uncomfortable with a Crucifix than a Cross.

It may have started out as ridding the church of “graven images”, but it has, I believe changed the entire outlook of Protestant Christians for generations to the point that some are not even comfortable *thinking about *the suffering Christ choose to go through for us because of His love.


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