The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo

Hello, I'm wondering what you all think about watching rated R movies. My wife wants to watch The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo but when I first saw the previews, I didn't think it was a good idea; although I did like the actors: Christopher Plummer and Daniel Craig. After seeing what content it contains(rape,torture,strong sexuality,graphic nudity,gore), I thought definitely not but my wife said that that stuff is what the movie or characters are trying to overcome. I asked my brother about watching American Pie a few years back and he said that I shouldn't approach (R) movies with fear, but try to gain some objective experience out of it. Who knows, maybe "Tattoo" will have some positive message and it won't be so bad after all. I hope someeone comments on this; Thank You, Joshua

I don't know about the American remake, but the originals definitely had some pretty graphic sexual content. I'm usually not too bothered by that, but I had to fast forward the third movie, which really crossed a line with the one sex scene.

I'm usually fairly tolerant of graphic content as long as it's not too extreme or overly gratuitous, and as long as the story is good. With the Dragon Tattoo books & movies, I thought the first of the three was exceptional and the graphic content fit into the context of the story. The other two, not so much.

If it's something you think would bother you, I'd suggest avoiding it.

Thanks, we're going to watch Mission Impossible which got a pretty good review by Steven Greydanus, or Sherlock Holmes today, God willing. I'll wait and think about "Tattoo".

I know this isn't a popular opinion these days, but there are some images I just don't want in my head. I was talking to someone recently who regretted that he had allowed so many images of sex and violence into his head, because he felt that it colored his thinking in a way he did not like.

If people feel comfortable with those things, they can go ahead and see them. But I feel really strongly that people who are NOT comfortable with those things should NOT try to make themselves see them anyway. Perhaps your wife could see it with a girl friend? I am unconvinced of the value of making oneself watch fake images of sex and violence.

There are times when we must face the results of real violence, but that does not mean that we need to watch fake violence.

I don't think that we ever need to watch other people having sex. :)

Just my :twocents:

--Jen

Thank you Jen; you know, another thing; in the preview, the "Girl" looks possessed, like someone in an exorcism movie. I mentioned this to my wife and she said oh, OK, agreeing with me. I also brought to her attention the content in the movie, and this seems to be helping to change her mind, thank God.
As for me, there's that underlying wondering and temptation of what's in the movie. For example, when I and my ex-girlfriend saw Boogie Nights, we walked out during one of the sex scenes. Later, after we separated, when on a little vacation alone, while watching TV I came across the same movie (Boogie Nights) and watched the rest of it. I could have done without it. Is this too much information? Thank you; Joshua

I saw the original three movies in swedish with english subtitles...you can also get them in dubbed versions now. I like the movies despite some of the content. I tended to fast forward over those harder to watch scenes. The third movie was the least bothersome and I considered it the best of all. You can actually watch the last movie without seeing the first two if you want and you'll do fine. I have no interest in seeing the American version. I can't see that they could possibly do better then the original actors but I'm sure whatever was included even in the much tamer American version would be hard for some to sit through. I would also say I liked the movies far better than the books. The books make the movies look like a trip to Disneyland plus they tend to be on the depressing side except for the last one.

For those who haven't read the trilogy, there will be graphic scenes of sex and violence. These things happen in real life and it doesn't do us any good to pretend that they don't exist. The truth is this trilogy is about good versus unspeakable evil, and therefore it's a story that Catholics can relate to.

Are these characters big time sinners? Absolutely--to the extreme sometimes. But the point is that even sinners who are extreme by our sensibilities, are also capable of taking a moral stand against evil.

[quote="Cbus, post:7, topic:267054"]
For those who haven't read the trilogy, there will be graphic scenes of sex and violence. These things happen in real life and it doesn't do us any good to pretend that they don't exist. The truth is this trilogy is about good versus unspeakable evil, and therefore it's a story that Catholics can relate to.

Are these characters big time sinners? Absolutely--to the extreme sometimes. But the point is that even sinners who are extreme by our sensibilities, are also capable of taking a moral stand against evil.

[/quote]

This is very true. Nontheless, revert_jen's opinion is still valid. We can understand the idea of fighting against evil without having to watch any movie where that is a theme. The ideas can still be brought out without watching hollywood versions of sex and violence.

I've read all the books and have seen all the swedish movies multiple times. I'll say that it isn't for everyone. Most people on this site probably wouldn't be able to handle it. I can, because I'm more open minded. I see the main charactor, Lisbeth, as being a very strong person, a true survivor. She has an awful thing done to her, but she doesn't allow it to destroy her. I love her charactor, I think it's the strongest and best female charactor to come along in many years. If your wife thinks she can handle it, hen I highly recommend it.

My sister-in-law wants to see it and I kind of want to see it too. I really enjoy Daniel Craig's acting (especially as James Bond) and I've made it a point to see any movies with him in it. I also consider myself fairly open minded and graphic content doesn't usually disturb me. Hopefully the movie is good.

Thanks everybody; my sense is that this falls under the scope of modesty and purity. If you would, please take a look in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, #'s: 2523 and 2525, under The Battle for Purity,9'th commandment,article 9.
Also, is this a story of vengeance? I've been seeing more and more movies about the main (now adult) character going after and killing the people who hurt them or killed their parents when the main character was young, ie: Colombiana. I know it must be devastating for a family member to be murdered by someone else; Father Mitch Pacwa has shared on his Open Line show on EWTN Radio that his sister was murdered and he was going to go look for and find the murderer and do who knows what to him, but he restrained himself and knew he had to forgive that man.
To me that's a painfully good example. When I see a movie like that I always say to my wife or think to myself what God says in the Bible: "Vengeance is mine, I will repay", Romans 12. verse 19

She doesn't kill the guy that hurts her, but she does blackmail him to ensure he never does anything like that again.
Like I said before, there isn't anything sinful about the movie,, but most people, especially on this site, may not be able to handle it.
If your wife wants to see it then maybe it would be better for her to see it alone.

Also, the author of the books wrote them with the intent of showin how very much alive violence and oppression against women is today. The series (books and movies) has a very good message in it.

[quote="child_of_God85, post:12, topic:267054"]
She doesn't kill the guy that hurts her, but she does blackmail him to ensure he never does anything like that again.
Like I said before, there isn't anything sinful about the movie,

[/quote]

A basic moral principle is that you may not do evil that good may come. "Benevolent" blackmail is also sinful. One of the problems with this sort of movie is that it does spend a couple of hours trying to convince people that such actions are moral. As long as the revenge is something less than an actual eye for an eye, it is apparently OK.

Of course, the worst movies of this sort (which Dragon Tattoo is not) seem to imply that an eye for an eye is perfectly OK, under the playground argument that, "He started it!"

[quote="child_of_God85, post:12, topic:267054"]
, but most people, especially on this site, may not be able to handle it.

[/quote]

I'm sure you didn't mean that to sound condescending, but it kinda does. ;) "You can't handle the truth!!" :)

Just because some people do not see the value in subjecting themselves to a particular piece of fake sex and violence, doesn't mean that they can't handle it. It means they choose not to do so.

--Jen

P.S. Personally, I don't need some movie to tell me that violence against women is alive and well. I'm not sure that, in itself, is a particularly good message. In addition, there is no way to know how many people watch these sort of movies because they enjoy the violence part, ignoring the message altogether. Volunteering at a battered women's shelter would be more to the point.

[quote="child_of_God85, post:9, topic:267054"]
I've read all the books and have seen all the swedish movies multiple times. I'll say that it isn't for everyone. Most people on this site probably wouldn't be able to handle it. I can, because I'm more open minded. I see the main charactor, Lisbeth, as being a very strong person, a true survivor. She has an awful thing done to her, but she doesn't allow it to destroy her. I love her charactor, I think it's the strongest and best female charactor to come along in many years. If your wife thinks she can handle it, hen I highly recommend it.

[/quote]

I agree. Lizabeth while not the most moral character keeps coming back no matter what they throw at her and has 0 tolerance to woman haters. She doesn't go out looking for revenge but merely to protect herself and as she sees it other potential victims and fights back the only way she knows how. I don't want to reveal any more than that for those who might want to read the books or watch the movies. Yes they can be hard to watch it might be best to wait for the dvd or watch the swedish versions available on dvd so you can fast forward through those parts that may be hard to take.

[quote="child_of_God85, post:12, topic:267054"]
She doesn't kill the guy that hurts her, but she does blackmail him to ensure he never does anything like that again.
Like I said before, there isn't anything sinful about the movie,, but most people, especially on this site, may not be able to handle it.
If your wife wants to see it then maybe it would be better for her to see it alone.

[/quote]

My opinion..............

If handle means being able to watch it without freaking out or without being able to enjoy the movie then yea I can handle seeing sex/nudity/graphic violence in films. I do however don't believe its ever necessary to show sex on film. It can always be implied without showing actual nudity. Just seems unnecessary to the story the great majority of the time. Graphic violence should also be limited. It seems Hollywood these days just likes to throw things in your face, that isn't being artistic or creative if you ask me.

Like revert_jen said, just because one chooses not to watch films like this doesn't mean they can't handle them. Its the principle of the matter.

That said I also choose not to watch movies which promote bad behavior or ideas. Though there is a difference between simply telling a story and actually promoting something.

So yes I would not watch this film. Yea maybe it has good acting, directing, story, music, or maybe all four but,
Let me ask you this: Would you drink something you knew was poisoned just because it was offered to you in a golden cup? — St. John Bosco

:cool:

My .02 cents.

I eagerly bought/read the trilogy of books after I read the overview of the first and was intrigued for the mystery/story of the book.
So personally I wasn't aware or expecting the books to be so graphically explicit with the sexual content. If i had, I would not have likely bought them at all to be honest. So having started to read them already I was.....uh... surprised :blush: when those parts of the story came about. However I continued to read for the enjoyment of the story itself.
While I personally don't necessarily care for the graphic content of those parts, I have to agree with Gordon Sims. It necessary to the first novel but the latter not quite so much.
In summary, If you fully know you're not so easily bothered with explicit content, then its worth seeing if you're interested in a good mystery, In my opinion. (The content and purpose of the story itself is a bit 'dark'.) Otherwise I would suggest to wait until the DVD release to be able to have control and fast forward through those parts. No, Its not going to have the characters leading moral and chaste lives, frankly this is not one of those movies you watch to look up to for such examples. However this is personally one of the best novels I've read for those who enjoy detective fiction/thriller genre.

My point is explicit sexual content in movies can be taken out without hurting the story, at least in every case I have seen. They rarely develop the story in anyway. Many films will be bashed for showing unnecessary things that don't develop the plot, though no one ever mentions the sex scenes which rarely develop the story at all. Not too mention people actually had to do those scenes in real life. If you were an actor or actress would you do a scene like that?

Movies are almost always for entertainment I don't think explicit sexual images should be part of a good Catholics entertainment, do you?

Its not something I support nor would I ever put it in my own film.

I agree with others about the advertising being kinda misogynist. A couple of the posters look like she's topless and Daniel Craig is having to protect her.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, I have to agree, I don't care for that poster. It makes Lisbeth look like the little helpless female.
I saw the movie tonight and it was very good. I really liked both versions, but this one seemed a bit closer to the book.
I think I also like the original swedish title to the book/movie, 'Men Who Hate Women'. It makes more sense for the whole story.

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