The Gloria - The Last Line


#1

"As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

The underlined, “is now and ever shall be, world without end.”

This was explained to me long ago. But I have forgotten. What does this mean? The second word is “it”. It is the pronoun for what noun?


#2

Awesome question I will be interested in the answer.


#3

Since this is usually said right after the invocation of the Trinity, the “it” being refered to is the eternal God in Three Persons, whom this prayer glorifies. The “world without end” is a poor translation of the original “for generation upon generation” or something similar.

Thus, it can be rendered: "Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit; as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, throughout all generations. Amen


#4

I believe the latin is “in saecula saeculorum”, which in the Mass is usually rendered “forever and ever”.


#5

Neo is correct.

Gloria Patri et Filio et Spiritui Sancto. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum.

Pax,
Keith


#6

[quote=Exporter]"As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

The underlined, “is now and ever shall be, world without end.”

This was explained to me long ago. But I have forgotten. What does this mean? The second word is “it”. It is the pronoun for what noun?
[/quote]

The “it” has no noun as antecedent: “as in the beginning…” would be an equally accurate, if less rhythmical, translation.

The “it” is present because one long sentence has been split into two shorter clauses - the only antecedent the “it” has, is the previous clause as a whole. ##


#7

When I taught first year Latin, I used to have the kids translate Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper. Every year the most common translation was “As he was in the beginning, and now, and always.” This is just as correct as translating erat as “it was”. However, in the context of the prayer Gottle’s explanation makes the most sense. “It” refers to giving glory to the Trinity, thus the whole phrase. Just like: “The man is always trying to get me down; that’s just the way it is.” “It” referes to the “man getting me down”, not a particular noun, but the whole phrase.


#8

Thank you, men. That means a lot.


#9

[quote=Fidelis]Since this is usually said right after the invocation of the Trinity, the “it” being refered to is the eternal God in Three Persons, whom this prayer glorifies. The “world without end” is a poor translation of the original “for generation upon generation” or something similar.

Thus, it can be rendered: "Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit; as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, throughout all generations. Amen
[/quote]

I could be mistaken, but I think it is equivalent to a phrase that is found over and over again in the Wisdom literature of the Bible: “from everlasting to everlasting” (I think the Orthodox use a phrase close to this). In essence, it means for all eternity.


#10

I heard the phrase “world without end” explained this way: The word “world” derived from the Old English “woruld” which had as its meaning “this age” or “time.” Thus the phrase “world without end” meant “age without end” or “time without end.” This paralleled the Latin saecula saeculorum. We have lost sight of this meaning in our modern language, and it seems like we are saying that the world will not end, but that is not the meaning of the phrase at all.


#11

“In saecula saeculorum”- into all (ages/generations/centuries/lifetimes) of (ages/generations/centuries/lifetimes)

“Per omnia”- through all


#12

[quote=Théodred]When I taught first year Latin.
[/quote]

Could I please piggyback on this thread and ask for a translation of “Laus Deo”? Does it mean simply “praise God”? Or should the translation be more extensive like perhaps"praise be to God"?
Thanks for humoring me.
Newman60


#13

[quote=Newman60]Could I please piggyback on this thread and ask for a translation of “Laus Deo”? Does it mean simply “praise God”? Or should the translation be more extensive like perhaps"praise be to God"?
Thanks for humoring me.
Newman60
[/quote]

Laus is not a verb, it’s a noun, laus, laudis, f, so it would not be “praise God!” Deo is the dative, and is normally translated to God. “The praise to God” or “praise to God” or “praise be to God” as infering the verb “to be” would not change the meaning.


#14

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