The God Helmet disproves God or perhaps "Visions?"


#1

Has anyone ever heard of “the God Helmet?” A device that stimulates the temporal lobes in our brains with a magnetic field to give us a “heavenly” or “Godly” feeling, and/or cause hallucinations, with such that could be of Holy figures? I came aross it on youtube. Apparently many are claiming this disproves God. And for those who have seen visions of Holy beings or saints within the past, suffer from Epilepsy, a neurological disorder caused by chaotic electrical discharges in temperol lobes which seems to create “vision” or hallucinations of Holy figures.

I imagine that since there are many strange disorders among our brains, that these things could happen. But does that mean every single vision is this? Visions of Mary, of the Saints, of God speaking directly to Moses? It’s interesting and I would like to know what others think.


#2

I also wanted to say that some scientists believe that the “belief” in God may be hardwired into our very brains through evolutionary processes in order to “impose order” and “stability” among humans. And depending on how deeply religous a person is depends on how enhanced the electrical circuitry in this part of the brain becomes. Also that those who suffer from seizers usually become “obessively religous,” and both Epelectics and deeply religous people display a similar respone when shown words evoking spiritual belief.

I’m not sure what to think about this. It’s interesting. Comments would be appriciated.


#3

I think its a load of rubbish and not worth debate.


#4

Ah I was just curious if any other knew about this.


#5

I’ll just mention a few points I personally regard as important:

First, such things as this cannot possibly explain all of the visions that people have had. For example, it cannot possibly explain the miracle of the sun at Fatima, which was witnessed by over twenty thousand people. Second, it can’t possibly explain any of the other visions that have been witnessed by more than one person, for the same reason. In fact, it would even have a hard time disproving visions people have had when other people have been around to witness any seizures or other sorts of things that supposedly account for the visions. In short, it only accounts for those visions that people have claimed to have alone and with no corroborating evidence.

This brings me to point number two: the way the Catholic Church handles visions. Now there are all sorts of people claiming to have visions out there, and the reality is that most of these people probably are lying, reading too much into some natural phenomenom, or experiencing some sort of brain-seizure-lobe-problem thing. However, the Catholic Church stands above these for one very important reason: when a supposed vision is brought to Her, She spends a great deal of time investigating it. In fact, the Catholic Church in a sense starts off with the assumption that the vision was not in fact real, and recognizes that it may be only after finding no natural explanation. The Church has medical tests done on the people claiming to have visions. If they had epileptic tendencies or that sort of thing, they would find that out. The Church is harsher on these things than even the most hardened atheist. She’s very thorough and cautious when dealing with these sorts of things. This is yet another reason why the Catholic Church stands above all of the religious mumbo-jumbo out there and represents the true God. :slight_smile:

Third, there are miraculous occurences out there that we can all see. There are bodies of saints that have not decayed over hundreds of years worth of time. There are Eucharistic miracles, such as the miracle of Lanciano which was been examined scientifically by a team of over 70 unbiased doctors and scientists of the World Health Organization. Some of these Eucharistic Miracles have been filmed, such as the miracle of Betania (in which a host turns into a heart and beats at intervals) and the miracle of Naju (in which a host turned into flesh and blood in a woman’s mouth), and many others. Simply search for “Eucharistic Miracle” on google video search and view the results. Unless every human being that watches these videos has some sort of temporal lobe electrical storm or seizure every time they watch these videos, then the concept doesn’t disprove anything. In fact, if this happened, it would be such a miracle as to defy natural explanation itself!

There’s no question some of these things can cause false visions, but they simply can’t explain away everything. Those who are closed to truth will claim they do, but anyone who is really open to the truth - whatever it happens to be - can’t brush these things off.


#6

Wow, I feel . . . blown away by your comment. Thanks man!! And I was also thinking of Fatima.


#7

Regarding this, there are a few problems. One is that it’s simply not easy to explain how such a genetic hardwiring would come to be.

Second, if this is true, then why is it that the concept of atheism is a very, very new concept, relatively speaking. Almost every human being in the history of the world, up until the past few centuries, has believed in some sort of deity. There were a few atheists here and there in ancient times, but really so few that one could say atheism did not exist until the 1600s and be entirely accurate. If belief in God were genetically wired in some and lacking in others, why were there not more atheists present in history? Why did virtually every human being to ever walk the earth believe in God, despite the fact that only some of them were wired to?

Third, even if this were true in some way, it wouldn’t prove anything. It goes back to the old problem with claiming evolution as an opponent of theism: you can only study the science of a thing up to a point. For example, in this case, you can’t possibly prove that God didn’t deign for our genetics to inspire belief in Him. In fact, the idea that some people are predisposed to believe in God would fit quiet nicely into certain forms of predestination.

Peace and God bless


#8

and those of us who do not have access to the helmet, get our spiritual experiences how and where?


#9

This may be a tad off subject but here goes.

There is a researcher name Rick Strassman who has done lots of research with a powerful hallucinogenic called DMT. Some people call DMT the “spirit molecule”. His studies are the first federal drug sponsored since the late sixties. anyways,during his studies he found that no matter what part of the world people were from they all had really similar experiences in regards to the visions they saw. Particular the types of beings that were seen. His studies covered I wide area of cultures from all sorts of geographical locations.

I come from a genre of people who used drugs like this on a regular basis. People of my age and younger have been doing DMT for a while. One thing that is really common is seeing elf looking beings and sometimes clowns. Yes,clowns. It has been in my experience that these types of beings are not being from God. This type of behavior can lead people,including me at one time,further away from the true God. Keep in mind I do not experiment with this type of drug. Matter of fact I consider it a form of sorcery and confessed this type of lifestyle in my first confession this week.

I can only imagine what this “God Helmet” will lead to.


#10

I would not wish the things I saw on my worst enemy. For me,it became somewhat of a curse that my mind was “opened up”. Sounds cool,fun,and spiritual but in the end it is the tool of the Devil who has no problems disguising himself as “light”.

Before I started this road to Catholicism I was counseled by a Priest because of the obsessiveness I had towards wanting to search out the other side. I still think about it sometimes but through prayer have moved on past where I was 6 years ago.

Being spiritual has a different meaning for me today. Praying the Rosary and living life on life’s terms is so much better and real. The presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is as spiritual as I want to get while here in this earthly body. Its all we need:thumbsup:


#11

yeah we had magic mushrooms and sacred banana peels to smoke in my day too. a hallucination is not a spiritual experience it is a psychological experience.


#12

The point I was trying to make is that DMT does not produce hallucinations. That is the danger behind things like that and this “god helmet” thing.

Mushrooms or LSD compared to DMT would be on the level of drinking beer. On a scale of 1-10. LSD or mushrooms would be a 1 and DMT would be around about 223:eek: The funny thing about DMT is that it only last about 10 minutes where the other do compounds spin you for many hours. Yikes!!!


#13

Eph 6:17 And take unto you the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit (which is the word of God).

That’s the only helmet of God I’ve heard about. :wink:


#14

This really strikes me as a subtle and indirect *ad hominem. *Rather than debate the possibility of real miracles and visions, they just assume they are impossible (how do they know it’s not them suffering something in the lobe?) and move on to speculating about the mental state of the ones having visions. It’s like Chesterton said, a counterfeit $20 bill does not disprove the existence of real money. As a matter of fact, real money is not “real” in the sense that the God-helmet people insist things be. Most currency is *fiduciary, *meaning that it only has value because the government promises it has value. Want to put on the money-promise helmet? :smiley:


#15

Another religion vs. science controversy. Again I’m sure you’ll get partisans who (in the religious side) wish to deny the science since they do not want to deal with the difficult and unpleasant questions it raises, and partisans who (on the scientific side) will claim that these scientific findings “disprove” religion. Both are nonsense.

Yes, it’s quite likely there are parts in the brain responsible for religious belief, and religious experience. For instance, meditation appears to be associated with decreased blood flow to the parietal lobes, resulting in a lesser “sense of self” and lesser spatial awareness, and a greater sense of fitting into a “bigger picture” somehow.

But this doesn’t in any way mean that religious beliefs and experiences aren’t real, merely because they’re correlated with brain activity. It’s quite likely visionaries, mystics, etc., had increased or decreased brain activity in the various regions. Doesn’t mean their experiences were false.


#16

yeah we had magic mushrooms and sacred banana peels to smoke in my day too. a hallucination is not a spiritual experience it is a psychological experience.

Mushrooms really do make hallucinations. But banana peels, from my observation of those who tried it, merely make one ill.

It was apparently a misunderstanding of an old Donovan song:

“Electrical banana, goin to be a sudden craze.
Electrical banana, goin to be the very next phase.”

It actually referred to a hoax by Country Joe McDonald (of Country Joe and the Fish).

Donovan, BTW, was one of the first rock stars to turn away from drugs and to urge his fans to do so.


#17

Every experience that we have involves some sort of brain stimulation.

The important question is whether the stimulus comes from an external source or not.

Just because it’s possible to stimulate the brain directly and reproduce a certain experience, doesn’t mean that there isn’t also something real that corresponds to that experience.

Stimulating one spot on the brain might make a person taste ice cream. Doesn’t mean there’s no such thing as real ice cream.

Usagi


#18

I was bit by a bug once. It was painful, like being jabbed with a needle. Therefore, every experience of needle-like jabbing pain must be the result of bug bites.

Right?

– Mark L. Chance.


#19

On LSD I saw lots of clowns and elves. Many times people I knew saw the same creatures scampering around the same places at different times, while the people were on the drug. We felt that these creatures were real, but invisible to people who weren’t on drugs. Our descriptions of them often matched uncannily. Were they real? I have no idea. I prefer not to dwell on it. I heard that some sort of drug causes people around the world to see tropical big cats, even if they have never heard of cats or seen a picture of the tropics.
Some rudimentary research has suggested that memory can be partially inherited, which would explain a lot of strange experiences I’ve had, but it’s in early stages and may be wrong. We just don’t know yet. If memory can be inherited, it would explain why Africa and Mesopotamia are so fascinating to most people: That’s the area we all came from, originally.
It makes me laugh that anyone would think that a hallucinated experience has any bearing whatsoever on the reality of similar experiences. That’s like saying that color frequencies and sound frequencies are a delusion because they are common hallucinations. :ouch: :stuck_out_tongue:


#20

you bring up some great points. I still feel inclined to say that some of the experiences are reall even they can only be seen to the user,however,I don’t feel that these thing are from God. It appears that these types of entities are trying ever so hard to pursuade the user into going “deeper” and then yet again go “deeper” so as to attain more,so called, knowledge. In the end the user is left with more questions and are futher away from the reality of Jesus Christ. When the person gets to the point of feeling the need to search other worlds and such the said person slowly,but surely, starts believing such philosophies like “the earth and all inhabitants are one(Gaia)” and other types of new age stuff that is nothing more than a cover for Satan. In the end if these sights are nothing but hallucinations,they are brought on by a substance that was not meant for humans to partake in so as to see God. The reality of God is right here in the present moment.He is here and presents Himself to someone without the need of some outside substance.


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