The Great Chastisement is a heresy


#21

Jim, you should worry if God doesn't send chastisements. His chastisments are a good thing and show his love. Sometimes a doctor has to cause pain to heal his patients, or a loving father to discipline his children.

Heb. 12: [4] For you have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin: [5] And you have forgotten the consolation, which speaketh to you, as unto children, saying: My son, neglect not the discipline of the Lord; neither be thou wearied whilst thou art rebuked by him. [6] For whom the Lord loveth, he chastiseth; and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [7] Persevere under discipline. God dealeth with you as with his sons; for what son is there, whom the father doth not correct? [8] But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are made partakers, then are you bastards, and not sons.[9] Moreover we have had fathers of our flesh, for instructors, and we reverenced them: shall we not much more obey the Father of spirits, and live? [10] And they indeed for a few days, according to their own pleasure, instructed us: but he, for our profit, that we might receive his sanctification. [11] Now all chastisement for the present indeed seemeth not to bring with it joy, but sorrow: but afterwards it will yield, to them that are exercised by it, the most peaceable fruit of justice.

From St. Thomas More's Dialogue of Comfort:

If chastisement is a good thing God does, I don't see why a "Great Chastisement" would be out of the question if there was a great need for chastising.


#22

Yeah I understand what they wrote, but I wonder if it isn’t a theology that isn’t a theology that they understood at the time, God who rewards and punishes ? What was Jesus and the Blessed Mother punished for then ?

St Faustina, Jesus reveals himself to her as a God who has mercy, beyond our understanding and tells her to spread the message of his divine mercy.

Also, Pope John Paul II stated that God doesn’t send souls to hell, they go there on their own. This say to me that God doesn’t chastise sinners, but that separation from God is the consequence of sin itself.

Also, my experience with Jesus Christ is his great compassion and mercy.

It conflicts with a God of reward and punishment and I think that this idea may just be a primitive theology and as we evolve spiritually, we learn of a God that appeared to St Faustina.

I’m not making statements here, but thinking out loud, so to speak.

Jim


#23

Every prophecy of Our Lady of Fatima has come true and been approved and certified by the Church, except the Great Chastisement.

From what I’ve read online, Our Lord and Our Lady say that the Great Chastisement shall indeed come, but the time of its coming is not known.

And, you say that God doesn’t do such things? Read the book of Jeremiah, how God specifically and repeatedly “warns” the people to repent, they don’t, so he inflicts upon them famine, sword, pestilence and deportation.


#24

The prophecy of Our Lady of Fatima did in fact come true, but keep in mind, it was man who caused the chastisement and suffering, not God.

Man could’ve turned to God to prevent it, but they refused.

Jim


#25

I am interested to know what the OP considers the "Great Chastisement" to be. There are many parts of the Book of Revelation that correspond with the persecutions of the Christians in the early centuries of the church. A family member used to talk a lot about the "Great Chastisement" apparently predicted by many saints (although I could never find an outside source for these predictions). My relative lived in extreme anxiety about this, so much so that it consumed her mind. She so convinced two other people that the Great Chastisement would arrive shortly before the year 2000, that the two young people were hospitalized with mental breakdowns. In my mind, that is what I thought the OP might have meant.

There is chastisement and suffering in all lives throughout all history. If we live our lives trusting in the love and mercy of God and doing our best to do His will, we need not fear. God will be with us through everything. Look at St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross or Maximilian Kolbe. They certainly underwent suffering, but they trusted in the Lord and united all to Jesus. God was with them. They had nothing to fear.


#26

God is first a Just God. Therefore, He can not just let people keep offending and disobeying Him without punishment. God is also a Merciful God, and His mercy is unlimited. This means that if we are sorry and ask His mercy and forgiveness it is ours.
But for those who refuse to repent and ask for mercy, there is a very real eternal damnation in Hell. This is why God does not send us to hell, but we chose to go by refusing to repent for our sins. Our Lady came to Fatima and spoke about, and showed the 3 children a vision of Hell. She asked for penance to save those souls who are slipping into hell because there is no one to pray and do penance for them. It was 1917, and WWI was in progress. She predicted a greater War (WWII) if people did not repent and pray the Rosary for peace. She also warned that the errors of Russia would spread across the world and create a godless government where there would be persecutions of Christians. It was the Nazis, then the Soviets, the Chinese and now it has spread to America. Our government is becoming the godless government she warned about. In a vision showed dead Clergy and Laity as a Pope walked thru the dead up a hill where he too was killed. John Paul thought that he was that Pope when he was shot. But 96 years after Mary appeared in Fatima, the world has become more evil, and there are those who persecute Christians throughout the world. Mary warned of a greater chastisement to come if man does not repent.We must take the message of Fatima seriously, and pray and do penance. This spiritual war that we are in now is the War to end all Wars, because it is by winning the spiritual war, peace will reign when the Immaculate Heat triumphs.


#27

[quote="aileenbaker, post:26, topic:173340"]
God is first a Just God. Therefore, He can not just let people keep offending and disobeying Him without punishment. God is also a Merciful God, and His mercy is unlimited. This means that if we are sorry and ask His mercy and forgiveness it is ours.
But for those who refuse to repent and ask for mercy, there is a very real eternal damnation in Hell. This is why God does not send us to hell, but we chose to go by refusing to repent for our sins. Our Lady came to Fatima and spoke about, and showed the 3 children a vision of Hell. She asked for penance to save those souls who are slipping into hell because there is no one to pray and do penance for them. It was 1917, and WWI was in progress. She predicted a greater War (WWII) if people did not repent and pray the Rosary for peace. She also warned that the errors of Russia would spread across the world and create a godless government where there would be persecutions of Christians. It was the Nazis, then the Soviets, the Chinese and now it has spread to America. Our government is becoming the godless government she warned about. In a vision showed dead Clergy and Laity as a Pope walked thru the dead up a hill where he too was killed. John Paul thought that he was that Pope when he was shot. But 96 years after Mary appeared in Fatima, the world has become more evil, and there are those who persecute Christians throughout the world. Mary warned of a greater chastisement to come if man does not repent.We must take the message of Fatima seriously, and pray and do penance. This spiritual war that we are in now is the War to end all Wars, because it is by winning the spiritual war, peace will reign when the Immaculate Heat triumphs.

[/quote]

AMEN!


#28

aileenbaker

God is first a Just God. Therefore, He can not just let people keep offending and disobeying Him without punishment.

And in light of the teachings from St. Faustina, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, the above teaching is an elementary and even primitive concept of God.

When people sin, they offend God, but it is the sin that separates them from God and being separated, they are open to suffering and disasters. God does not send them the punishment, as a parent punishing their child with a beating. In fact, this concept of God often lead to all sorts of abuses of children and others, who the self-righteous believing they were acting as God would, punished the offender brutally.

St.Francis of Assisi never preached this about God, nor did most of the Saints. The apparitions are Fatima were private revelations and being such, the visionaries receive the messages according to their understanding and in their world. reward and physical punishment were the norm.

God is also a Merciful God, and His mercy is unlimited. This means that if we are sorry and ask His mercy and forgiveness it is ours.

Correct, but in light of this, good people still suffer. On 9/11, good people were killed or injured, so too in all the major disasters of the world. Good and evil people suffer equally.

Did God punish the good with the sinners and if so, is that a merciful God?

This would be a contradiction.

However, the fact that we humans, good and bad, live in a fallen state, we are subject to the natural consequences of living in a fallen state, just as Jesus and Mary, who were without sin lived with.

Again, it's not God's chastisement, and too many people like Pat Robertson made the outrageous statements that Hurricane Katrina was punishment from God, for abortion and homosexuality. What about the good devote people who suffered in this? What was their punishment for ?

As I read the teachings of the last two Pope's and I'm sure we're going to see Pope Francis teach it even more, suffering is the consequence of sin, not a punishment from God's hand. When we turn to God, we begin a relationship based on love. In this relationship, we experience a merciful God, who weeps for our suffering, but also helps us through it.

God is love, and those who have faith, experience God's love and when that relationship deepens, we begin to take on the characteristics that lovers take on from each other, and begin to love as God loves.

Jim


#29

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