The Great Schism


#1

Does anyone else feel a slight tingling that shortly, perhaps within a decade… or at most within your lifetime, that the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches will re-embrace and the Schism healed?

I pray it will be so!


#2

I am not an expert however it seems to me that the Orthodox hold us with a bit of contempt. We are still heretics to them. The same could easily be said about us, as we believe the successor to Saint Peter is the head of the Church.

Would love it to happen, so we could stand up to secularisation and atheism, but highly doubt it.


#3

It will never happen. A while back, I visited an Eastern Orthodox forum. They reject the doctrine of Purgatory especially those here in the states. If it were to happen it, would not be unamious. The U.S. sect would split from the European.


#4

Ahhh a little more optimism!!
All things are possible with Faith!

:slight_smile:
Slan agus Beannacht De!!


#5

optimism is great, realism is even beter at times :slight_smile:


#6

From what I understand, the doctrine of purgatory – while not formulated in the Orthodox churches – is yet still believed. This from Catholic Answers: "When I [Jimmy Akin] began looking at the issues separating Catholics and Orthodox, it turned out that a lot of them were more semantic than substantive. If I became Orthodox, I would have to accept more Catholic things than I at first thought: purgatory, for example. Orthodox don’t traditionally use the word purgatory for the purification that happens after death, but they acknowledge that such a purification happens. They pray for the souls of the departed, which makes sense only if those prayers can help the departed in some way.

Rather than using the image of fire for the purification (cf. 1 Cor. 3:10–15), Orthodox often picture the soul passing through a series of “toll houses” on its road to heavenly glory. It’s a different image, but it points to the fundamental reality that the saved soul may have to undergo some form of ordeal before it is admitted to full heavenly glory."

The Orthodox churches are doctrinally unified to the Catholic churches in every respect, with the one exception being papal infallibility. This is being worked on; when it is accepted, I am certain we will become unified absolutely – and it is my conviction that with much prayer and witnessing, we will reach agreement on this topic within my lifetime.

EDIT: This from OrthodoxWiki.com

"The Orthodox Church has neither explicitly recognized the term “purgatory” nor officially accepted such a state, which is distinct from the more general being “asleep in the Lord.”

…That said, Eastern Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware acknowledges several schools of thought among the Orthodox on the topic of purification after death. This divergence indicates that the Catholic interpretation of purgatory, more than the concept itself, is what is universally rejected. Also, there are Orthodox sources that indicate some sins can be forgiven after death; (Mt 12:32) but which also reject the notion of purgatory because of the indulgences and idea of purgatorial fire that are tied to it.

Some Eastern Orthodox sources, including the Ecumenical Patriarchate, consider Purgatory to be among “inter-correlated theories, unwitnessed in the Bible or in the Ancient Church” that are not acceptable within Orthodox doctrine, and hold to a “condition of waiting” as a more apt description of the period after death for those not borne directly to heaven. This waiting condition does not imply purification, which they see as being linked to the idea “there is no hope of repentance or betterment after death.” Prayers for the dead, then, are simply to comfort those in the waiting place.

Other Orthodox believe in the “toll gate” theory by which the dead go to successive “toll gates” where they meet up with demons who test them to determine whether they have been guilty of various sins during life and/or tempt them to further sin. If they have not repented and been absolved of those sins, or if they give in to sin after death, they will be taken to Hell."


#7

First of, Catholic Answers is not authoriative of what the United States Eastern Orthodox believe.

2nd, I suggest you visit this forum: www.orthodoxforum.com
And find out the views.


See this: orthodoxforum.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=518

concerning “A TRUE union with Rome–what would need to happen?”

And this one I started on Purgatory:
orthodoxforum.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=414

This is the realism of reality.

It ain’t gonna happen. Exercise wishful thinking all you want, Reality is Reality.

If This forum represents Catholicism, then that forum represents Eastern Orthodox.


#8

#9

Disclaimer from Orthodoxwiki.com

What OrthodoxWiki is not
[LIST]
*]It is not a church body.
*]It is not an official voice of Orthodoxy—among other things, this means that official documentation from particular Church officials does not constitute binding editorial policy for OrthodoxWiki. In other words, OrthodoxWiki regards itself as a beneficiary of the freedom of the press granted by the country of its server’s residence.
*]It is not a substitute for your priest or bishop.
*]It is not perfect[/LIST]


#10

Yes, they are possible, but less likely with each passing day. Believe me, I would love to see it, but with differing teachings on matters as basic as Purgatory, the Trinity and birth control, it just seems less likely all the time.


#11

We pray that it will be so. However, working that out will be the thing to do. I do not think the role the Pope has in the Catholic Church would sit well with any of the Orthodox Patriarchs. If reunification will be achieved, I would think the first thing that would be done would be to bring the role of the bishop of Rome back as to how it was in the early Church, which would greatly limit it to its jurisdiction. I do not know if this would be favoured in Rome, though that is how I see reunification would be achieved. I highly doubt any of the Patriarchs would agree to the universal jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome.


#12

Not a chance. They think we are heretics.


#13

IF this is what is will take. Then no, it will never happen.

Chuck


#14

It’s a lot more complicated than that, unfortunately. There are some other issues that would be tackled, but I would think the role of the bishop of Rome would be one of the most important for both sides.


#15

I used to think so. After “chatting” with EO on the internet and speaking to some in real life, I see that the wounds are still deep and flowing and an en masse reunification will never happen. What will happen, and has, is that certain Eparchies and Dioceses will unify with the Church as Mar Bawai Soro has or intends to do.

marbawai.com/docs/acadenglish.pdf

marbawai.com/

This is what happened with the Melkites, the Ukrainians, and the like.


#16

Joey Warren,

The Copts hold a different Theology than those who trace their lineage to Constantinople.

I couldn’t quote your whole post


#17

And once a Catholic equivalent has been made, the Orthodox will hold a synod to choose a new Patriarch to replace the one who defected, as we also see in the case of Antioch, which has both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Patriarchs.


#18

I agree with many posters here that unification seems highly unlikely…

… and I’d just like to mention how sad it is that if the Patriarch of Istanbul (sorry Constantinople) showed up in the US he’d have a hard time filling up a broom closet let alone Yankee Stadium… so sad that their pride prevents them from coming home and actually being a force for good in the world and not just a virtually silent historical footnote. :frowning:

Praying for them.


#19

It seems you relegate the Orthodox Church to something of a lower stature than the Catholic Church. This should not be the thinking. It’s not how many number of people one can attract in any given place. The Ecumenical Patriarch, as well as the other Orthodox Patriarchs, do not seek media attention in any way. What they do is serve the Church in their own way.


#20

Most certainly… without an instrument of unity (papal primacy) the Orthodox faith has crumbled into little more than like-minded autocephalous Churches.

There is only ONE Church… one head, one body, one faith.

It’s not how many number of people one can attract in any given place. The Ecumenical Patriarch, as well as the other Orthodox Patriarchs, do not seek media attention in any way. What they do is serve the Church in their own way.

“As the “convocation” of all men for salvation, the Church in her very nature is missionary, sent by Christ to all the nations to make disciples of them.”… it’s not about “seeking media attention” it’s about the salvation of souls… and in this regard I can’t imagine anyone could say that they have not failed at this… to the detriment of us all.


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