The Gulf Coast and the Cane. Could it be divine retribution?

If God were going to “pour out wrath” on the wicked people of the world, I kinda think He would have:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: better aim!!!:tsktsk:Shame on you!!

Zooey, your post must set some kinda smiley record!

In Ohio, we have no hurricanes, but we do have tornadoes. Fox, to use your logic, is the family that is wiped out by a tornadoe, more sinfull than another family that is spared any damage a few blocks away? I really doubt it, but if I get to heaven, maybe I’ll ask the Almighty, if he’ll allow me to.

[quote=Thekla]No, and I actually find this question to be in bad taste, considering the present suffering. You write that “As we know we have seen God exact retribution before on people.” When have you seen that?

We could quote Scripture all day long but the truth of the matter is that hurricanes can be explained by science. A vengeful God really can’t be explained very well by Catholics.
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I do not think a vengeful God is the point the earth itself rebels agains sin, like when Jesus was crucified.We need to help the people that are suffering and pray for the dead.

[quote=Fox]It just seems to me that people scramble for God when disasters strike, and for the next few months or perhaps a year it fades from some people. It shouldn’t be so, but maybe perhaps from these types of events more people find God and stick with Him.
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Maybe those who are already Christians (Catholic and otherwise), or any people who already have a fairly strong faith in God. But what do you think this disaster will do to those whose faith is very weak, or are just beginning to search for faith? We need to think in terms of how these events affect all people, not just Catholics.

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It could be…

Isn’t Voodoo one of the primary ‘religions’ there?

Also… that Mardi Gras gets outta hand quite a bit from what I ehar… never been.

But then… Only God knows.

[quote=Fox]Does anyone here believe that this natural occurrence that hit the coast and New Orleans divinely initiated? Could this be collective payment for the sins of the region? As we know we have seen God exact retribution before on people.
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Fox,

In times of stress people tend to move closer to God, or they often walk away from God in despair. It is hard to guess how this event will move people.

I just know that there have been an awful lot of Catholic prophecies that speak about these sorts of things…

You know that God allows suffering in this world. What a person does with that suffering is their choice.

I look at it this way, about 80% of the people in the region LEFT the area. About 20% did not. OK you could subtract for those who were tourists and couldn’t leave because of their flights being canceled.

ALSO you have to discount those who are city officials and vital service people who had to stay to be in a situation that New Orleans is in right now to search and rescue.

A rath from God? I look at it this way, when He does The Whole World will know it.
Yet, sometimes the just have to suffer with the unjust. It’s the way God has it planned.
By the suggestion of those who think IT IS a retrubtion, God could have made this a Category 6, 7 and off the charts! He could have disabled the entire Gulf if He wanted to, but He Did Not.

People choose to live on coastlines and such areas. Biloxi and Gulfport, MS are practically off the map.

Bottom line, live your life the way Jesus intends us to live and ‘Be Not Afraid’.

Yep… lots of natural disasters are supposed to happen… and over the last couple of years… there sure have been alot of’m.

[quote=TPJCatholic]Fox,

In times of stress people tend to move closer to God, or they often walk away from God in despair. It is hard to guess how this event will move people.

I just know that there have been an awful lot of Catholic prophecies that speak about these sorts of things…
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Jeffrey,

Yes, lot’s of disasters and we have had our share of trouble.

You got that right… also the locusts plagues recently is definetly biblical also… and Jerusalem walling itsself in is a biggie too.

:gopray: :bible1: :gopray2:

[quote=TPJCatholic]Jeffrey,

Yes, lot’s of disasters and we have had our share of trouble.
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[quote=Fox]Thek,
Ok you tell me why Sodom and Gormah (sp) were wiped from existence. God is God of the OT and to this present day. God has used natural disasters in the past, He can do it now.
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Since you’ve gone to the Old Testament (not my favorite), I’ll respond by saying that I think you missed the point of the story (and consider my emphasizing the word “story.”)

In Genesis 18, God had a conversation with Abraham where God expressed his intent to level Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham argued with the Lord and asked him if he would “sweep away the innocent with the guilty? Suppose there were fifty innocent people within it?” The Lord replied that if there were 50 innocents, He wouldn’t do it. And Abraham continued to talk Him down in numbers until they got down to 10.

I always believed that it wasn’t the number that was important or the fact that S & G was eventually leveled, but the idea that one innocent life had such value that the evil of the others could never outweigh that life. I always saw this as a story of the value of the good and innocent rather than a story of punishment for evil.

I guess it’s a matter of how you approach it; like I said, I never saw that as a story of punishment. The ultimate demise of S&G is only a line or two whereas God’s conversation (and an interesting change of mind) lasts for many, many lines.

Besides that, God actually evolves in the Bible, from a vengeful God who destroyed S&G and planned to destroy Ninevah, to a God who shows compassion. God gets it; that people deserve a chance to repent their sins rather than just pay for them through suffering* and death. *That’s what the Ten Commandments are about and that’s what Jesus’ death is about. Redemption.

Its like Father Corapi once said “The reason why bad things happen is because we are not being as holy as we should be.” I believe that God can bring good out of evil. It can be understood that God has allowed this hurricane to occur so He can bring out of it. Just a reminder of what Father Benedict said, “But I can tell you that we are no more innocent then they are.” True, I look at natural disasters as God’s way of purifying our nation. Why? Because I believe that suffering brings us to our senses, and gets us to hold on to the things that matter the most. Did this hurricane happen because of our sins? Well, partially yes. Buts its like Archbishop Fulton Sheen said, “When we violate the natural law of God, there will be consequences.” Pope John Paul II wrote a very famous encyclical on suffering, does anyone know what the name of it might be? Thanks in advance.

Noah’s flood wasn’t punishment?

Pharoh’s pride didn’t wipe out his army and kill the nation’s first born babes? God didn’t punish him?

Let me know something, why do people tend to forget that God has a just judge side along with His forgiveness side?

[quote=Fox]Let me know something, why do people tend to forget that God has a just judge side along with His forgiveness side?
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Maybe for the same reason that some people can never see anything but the angry, punishing, wrathful God – and never see His Divine Mercy.

But any person who has ever gone to school as a child understands that punishing the whole class for the wrongdoing of one tends to backfire.

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Egypt was punished by one man’s pride.

The thing is people tend to empthasis mercy instead of seeing the other side of God as Him being a judge as well. He is all forgiving but He is a just judge.

Do you think that God isn’t angry at what humanity has done?

[quote=Fox]Does anyone here believe that this natural occurrence that hit the coast and New Orleans divinely initiated? Could this be collective payment for the sins of the region? As we know we have seen God exact retribution before on people.
[/quote]

No.

Genesis 9:8-17

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him, 9 “Behold, I establish my covenant with you and your descendants after you, 10 and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark. 11 I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.” 12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations: 13 I set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 When the bow is in the clouds, I will look upon it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.” 17 God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.”

[quote=Fox]The thing is people tend to empthasis mercy instead of seeing the other side of God as Him being a judge as well. He is all forgiving but He is a just judge.
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We need to see both sides of God. I can’t second-guess God, and many things He does are a mystery, but have you ventured far enough outside the realm of Christianity to see just how much harm these disasters do in turning people away (or farther away) from God? Maybe this is just another mystery, but why would God, being all-powerful, choose to operate in such an inefficient manner? Doesn’t He want to bring all His people closer to Him? Or only the lukewarm Catholics?

I don’t know, maybe it’s just me, but I respond only to carrots; never to sticks. And I know I’m not the only one.

[quote=Thekla]I always believed that it wasn’t the number that was important or the fact that S & G was eventually leveled, but the idea that one innocent life had such value that the evil of the others could never outweigh that life. I always saw this as a story of the value of the good and innocent rather than a story of punishment for evil.
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I only wish more people could remember this.

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I think the region is subject to hurricanes, sometimes big ones, sometimes small ones…and that’s all we know for sure.

Good post Cath. Well done.

A good stick now and then is what some people need.

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