The Idle Tale - Luke 24:11

Today I was visited by a Christian who calls himself a “Messianic Jew.” After an hour of study about the resurrection, he got impatient with my lack of faith, and before he left he challenged me to produce the body if I couldn’t believe in Jesus’ resurrection. That’s what inspired me to share with you this topic for discussion.

Now, if we put ourselves together, and then put together whatever we can from reading the NT about the resurrection of Jesus, we will see that he did not resurrect. I would like to bring to your attention some points about that tale. Tale! Yes, and the term is not mine. I am borrowing it from Jesus’ own disciples who went even further by adding the adjective “idle.” Idle tale, they said. (Luke 24:11)

The women had reported the words of the “angel” that Jesus had resurrected. The disciples probably had never heard of such a thing. They had no choice but to discard their report as an idle tale. Now, think: If those who lived daily with Jesus, listening daily to his words, could not believe the report, how can we be expected to, after almost two thousand years of listening to a tale that just won’t get less idle?

When did the disciples ever change their minds about that idle tale? I wonder because about 30 years later, when Paul showed up in Jerusalem preaching that Jesus had resurrected, he almost got killed. Why? Was not the Sect of the Nazarenes
headquartered in Jerusalem? Yes, but that Jesus had resurrected was not in their agenda. The whole thing had been made up by Paul. Yes, all according to his gospel as he himself revealed it to his disciple Timothy. (II Tim. 2:8) Obviously, Paul needed that tale to promote his Cause, which turned out to be Christianity.

The resurrection of Jesus, therefore, can be accepted only and exclusively by faith because there is no evidence to substantiate the event. An empty tomb is no proof of resurrection. And the refusal at the time to produce the body does not diminish from the fact that the body was indeed removed from there. And the guards can never be taken as evidence of anything whatsoever, because they were set at the tomb area only late Saturday morning. The disciple who removed Jesus’ body from that tomb, most probably Joseph of Arimathea, had the whole night of Friday, and all for himself to act without any disturbance. And he did it because he had enough reasons to believe that, by not doing it, even during the hours of that Sabbath, Mary Magdalene would have done it instead, as she herself declared she would. (John 20:15) So, I wish the preachers of the resurrection would at least give Paul the credit that’s due him. (II Tim. 2:8)

Ben: :slight_smile:

The reason guards were set and the tomb checked and sealed by the jewish high priests was *because *they were aware of the ‘stories’ that Jesus’ followers told and believed - that Jesus had said to His followers that He would be ressurrected on the third day.

The jewish high priests believed what you do not believe - the ressurrection of Jesus.
They believed it enough to try to guard against it.
:yawn:

Hello Ben.We as Catholics and all Christians owe the Jewish People our deepest respect and gratitude for being a people of God and for writing and keeping Sacred Scipture for the privilege for us to read and study.May I humbly offer these Sacred Scriptures for your discernmemt:Ge.3:15,Ga.4:4,Luke 2:7,He.12:5.Ge.18:18,Ac.3:25.Ge.17:19,Mt.1:2,Lu.3:24.Ge.49:10,Lu.3:33,Mt.1:2-3.Is.9:7,Mt.1:1,Mt.1:6.Mi.5:2.Da.9:25,Lu.2:1-2,Lu.2:3-7.Is.7:14,Mt.1:18,Lu.1:26-35.Zec.9:9,Is.62:11,Jn.12:13-14.Ps.41:9,Mk.14:10.Zec.11:12.Zec.11:13,Mt.27:6-7.Is.53:12,Mt.27:38.Ps,22:16,Jn.20:27.Zec.12:10,Jn.19:34.Ps.22:18,Mk.15:24.Wisdom 2:12-24.Is.53:9,Mt.27:57-60.Ps.16:10,Mt.28:9,Lu.24:36-48.Ps.68:18,Lu.24:50-51,Ac.1:9.The Resurrection:Mk.16:9,Mt.28:9,1Co:15:9,Lu.24:29-31,Jn.20:19-31,Jn.21:5-6,1Co.15:7,Lu.24:50-51,Ac.9:4-6.Respectfully,Rocky.

Ben It looks like you enjoy Fairity Tales did you hear the one about the 3 little pigs,it also is a good one,if you like I can tell it to You. Have a good day and week end., smile

Hi Ben,
How about we start with the OT, let look to “proof from prophecy”. The Old Testament served as a fixed and objective rule by which anyone could measure the truth about Jesus’ person and mission.

  • the Messiah would be born a child, but would be “mighty God” Is 9:6-7
  • He would be born of a virgin Is 7:14
  • He would be born in Bethlehem Mic 5:2
  • He would be born into the line of King David Jer 23:5
  • He would heal the blind, lame and deaf Is 35:5-6
  • He would be betrayed by a friend Ps 55:12-14
    *He would suffer and be despised Is 53:2-7
  • His flock would abandone Him Zech 13:7
  • He would be “pierced” by nails and by a sword Ps 22:16, Zech 12:10
  • He would be a just man tortured and killed by His enemies Wis 2:12-20
  • He would be executed with criminals Is 53:12
  • His enemies tore His garments and gambled for them Ps22:18
  • He would rise from the dead Ps 16:10, 30:3
  • He would bring all the nations the light of the true God Is 60:3

The list goes on to fill volumes. In Jesus’ life all the prophecies coalesced and found fullfillment, in a way that boggles the human mind, but had been omnipresent in the mind of God. Perhaps it is difficult for us, today, to understand the powerful and cumulative effect of the prophetic argument. We do not esteem our prophets as our ancestors did. But the “proof from prophecy” was, for the first Christians, an appeal to the historical record. The events of Jesus’ life were attested by witnesses; and the books of the prophets had been a matter of public record for many centuries.

Hello!

It is obvious that the disciples didn’t fully understood Jesus’ nature until after his death and resurrection. The incarnation-God becoming man-is a difficult concept even for modern believers to fully comprehend. If you are going to accept part of the Christian writings as truthful, shouldn’t you accept the biblical account of Jesus’ resurrection as truthful?

I realize that we are supposed to spread the word of God but I have always been uncomfortable with the high pressure tactics some Christians use against those they consider nonChristians. I’ve been the object of a few conversion attempts myself. It is very frustrating.

You are not borrowing enough. The full verse reads:

“And these words seemed to them as idle tales: and they did not believe them.” (emphasis mine)

True, the Apostles did not believe the women’s fantastic-sounding report at first, but there soon followed many more eyewitnesses including the Apostles themselves.

As to the resurrection of Jesus - one either credits the various accounts of his resurrecting, or one does not. The minutiae is of no import, methinks…
i.e. …Who found that he had risen, who testified to this resurrection…

Neither believing - nor disbelieving - effects a given reality. Either he rose, or he did not rise. Either he is the man/God or he was not.


As to Saul of Tarsus, my understanding is that he sat at the feet of the the grandson of Hillel the Elder, learning Torah.

“At the feet of Gamaliel I was educated strictly in our ancestral law…” Acts 22:3

The valuable contribution of Saul of Tarsus was the fact that he thoroughly understood Judaic teaching. He knew that a reason had to be given for the saving act of Jesus. So he presented the notion that mankind is born in ‘original sin’ - ‘inherited’ from Adam - from which he/she needs ‘saving.’

A Judaic view of original sin:

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Original_Sin.html

reen12 :tiphat:

If I was told that a dead man was out walking, their story seemed like nonsense and they did not
believe them.

Ben is trying to disprove what his ancesters failed to disprove 2000 years ago.

Amen, and he will not have any luck in the next 2000 years smile

Well my friend, the Truth walks slowly but never gets tired.

Ben: :slight_smile:

What did they fail to disprove, that the tomb was empty? No one could prove that it was occupied. The only one who could - Joseph of Arimathea, never went back there to inquire why Jesus was not there.

Ben: :slight_smile:

Eyewitnesses of what, for Heaven’s sake? To see someone after his sufferings is no proof of resurrection. Read Acts 1:1-3)

Ben: :slight_smile:

I can’t accept more than 20 percent of the NT as truthful. And the tale of the resurrection is part of the 80 percent.

Ben:

Thank you Wardrandolph. Now, Shalom to you too from Yerushalaim.

Ben: :thumbsup:

Does it mean you are comparing the idle tale of the resurrection with the fairy tale of the 3 little pigs?

Ben: :slight_smile:

I agree with you! If someone told me that my dead father was walking around, at best I would think that the person was insane or hysterical. I might think the person had a cruel streak.

Even a cursory reading of the Gospels presents the disciples as having foibles. They had just seen their beloved leader killed in a horrible manner. Of course, they didn’t believe. It wasn’t until Jesus appeared to them and talked with them that the apostles accepted his resurrection.

The fact that the Gospels present the disciples doubts and faults speaks to the truthfulness of its narrative.

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