The Islamic belief that CHRISTIANS will burn in Hell


#1

This belief never really scared me, but it annoys and irritates me at times when I try to live my faith. Any advice on how to get this rediculous belief to stop bugging me?
Also, what is the TRUE Islamic view of salvation for good Jews and Christians who belief in Judgement Day and all? The Koran seems to contradict itself concerning the Jews and Christians, speaking good of them in some verses and showing a negative view of them in others. I know that there are Islamic fundamentalists, just as there are Christian fundamentalists that claim all non-followers of their religion are damned. But are there Muslims who are not fundamentalists (like Catholics who aren’t Protestants) that do NOT teach that all Non-Muslims will be damned, like Catholicism teaches that not ALL non-Christians will be damned?


#2

Christians, along with some other faiths, are supposed to have a special status within Islam as “people of the book”

Since Islam doesn’t have a hierarchy similar to Catholicism there is probably different interpretations of what that actually means.

How this translates into the beliefs of the average Moslem in the street I don’t know. There are a billion Moslems so there may be a billion opinions

Some general info

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book

A positive view

harunyahya.com/32terrorism_people_soc09.html

A negative view

freeman.org/m_online/may98/shaikh.htm


#3

[quote=PMV]This belief never really scared me, but it annoys and irritates me at times when I try to live my faith. Any advice on how to get this rediculous belief to stop bugging me?
Also, what is the TRUE Islamic view of salvation for good Jews and Christians who belief in Judgement Day and all? The Koran seems to contradict itself concerning the Jews and Christians, speaking good of them in some verses and showing a negative view of them in others. I know that there are Islamic fundamentalists, just as there are Christian fundamentalists that claim all non-followers of their religion are damned. But are there Muslims who are not fundamentalists (like Catholics who aren’t Protestants) that do NOT teach that all Non-Muslims will be damned, like Catholicism teaches that not ALL non-Christians will be damned?
[/quote]

Why should this bug you? You have Muslim fundies and Christian fundies, who damn each other to hell. This is old news. The Qur’an has some “hard sayings” about non-Muslims, but those sayings don’t negate the fact that Islam in general does not damn all non-Muslims to eternal damnation.

If you want to read about Islam as non-fundies practice it, try Seyyed Nasr’s books.


#4

Remember that Islam doesn’t have a unified authority structure like Catholicism. There is often a spectrum of legitimate opinion without very clear drawing of boundaries between orthodoxy and heresy. Certainly many Muslims believe that all righteous people will be saved, no matter what their religion. Whether this is the majority view historically I don’t know. It’s hard to find scholarship on Islam that is fair and accurate (in other words, that isn’t distorted either by pro- or anti-Islamic bias). I’ve been working my way through Marshall Hodgson’s The Venture of Islam. The author was a liberal Quaker and at times perhaps whitewashes Islam a bit, but he seems quite fair and accurate to me. I’ve also been reading Karen Armstrong’s History of God, but I don’t trust Armstrong that much (though she’s a brilliant writer–I’m not accusing her of dishonesty, but her bias as an ex-Catholic really distorts her perspective). A friend of mine told me that a friend of hers, who is a scholar of Islam (and a Catholic), doesn’t think much of Armstrong’s work on Islam. Actually I have a friend who studies Islam for a living–I should ask him.

Edwin


#5

[quote=PMV]This belief never really scared me, but it annoys and irritates me at times when I try to live my faith. Any advice on how to get this rediculous belief to stop bugging me?
[/quote]

I have heard that Islam was not entirely consistent in this, that although there might be beliefs such as what you mention, there are also some statements concerning people of the book, which are more lenient than this. Does Catholicism also have declarations such as this which were made in the past, although recently, it has taken a more lenient attitude toward salvation outside of the Church. For example:
“The holy Roman Church believes, professes, and preaches that no one remaining outside the Catholic Church, not just pagans, but also Jews or heretics or schismatics, can become partakers of eternal life; but they will go to the ‘everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life they are joined to the Church. For the union with the body of the Church is of such importance that the sacraments of the Church are helpful to salvation only for those remaining in it; and fasts, almsgiving, other works of piety, and the exercise of Christian warfare bear eternal rewards for them alone. And no one can be saved, no matter how much alms he has given, even if he sheds his blood for the name of Christ, unless he remains in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1438-45, From the Bull “Cantate Domino”, February 4, 1441 (Florentine style) Decree for the Jacobites, Denz. 165.)


#6

Once you ask him please post the answer here, thanks.


#7

I suppose an individual Muslim can believe that true Christians will go to hell, but that person sure seems to be going against what the Quran teaches. Note the following ayats:

Those who believe (in the Qur’an) and those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians and who believe in Allah and the last day and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve. (Yusif Ali, The Holy Quran, pp. 33, 34 – 2.62)

Those who believe (in the Qur’an) those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Sabians and the Christians any who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve. (Ibid., pp. 270, 271 – 5.69)

One must also take note of what Muhammad wrote in his letter/charter to Christian monks:


[size=1]>>[/size]A Letter to the Monks of St. Catherine Monastry

In 628 C.E. Prophet Muhammad (s) granted a Charter of Privileges to the monks of St. Catherine Monastery in Mt. Sinai. It consisted of several clauses covering all aspects of human rights including such topics as the protection of Christians, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property, exemption from military service, and the right to protection in war.

An English translation of that document is presented below.

This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them

No compulsion is to be on them.

Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.

Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.

The Muslims are to fight for them.

If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.

Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).

This charter of privileges has been honored and faithfully applied by Muslims throughout the centuries in all lands they ruled.

[[/font]themodernreligion.com/comparative/christ/christianity_charter.htm](“http://www.themodernreligion.com/comparative/christ/christianity_charter.htm”)>>

Grace and peace,

Aug[font=Arial][/font]


#8

[font=Verdana]Muhammad has started a religion that states that Christ is not the son of God. It also states that the actual teachings of both Moses and Christ have been plagiarized by men. If they are willing to say that Christ is not the son of God, we should be willing to say that Muhammed is a false prophet. Sorry if that is not politically correct to say but it seems pretty obvious. I also cant understand why they say to respect Christians so much along with our Churches. Are they saying it’s ok for people to worship prophets as God?

-D
[/font]


#9

Following please find resons for inconsistencies in Koran regarding Jews and Christians.

Muhammad’s revelation was progressive, and lasted 23 years. From the first 13 years, when he resided in Mecca, come revelation of tolerance towards Jews and Christians as “People of the Book”, who received valid revelation according to Koran.

But as Muhammad did not manage to convert almost any Jews and Christians with just kind words he changed his tactic. He conquered the city of Medina, and moved there. The revelation of the last 10 years of his preaching is very different from Mecca time.
Those verses talk of fight with the unbelievers (all those who do not acknowledge Allah as God, and Muhammad as his prophet). This includes Jews and Christians. These are so called “verses of the sword”. The last reveled verses of Koran say something like that: Fight till there is no unbelief, and faith is for Allah alone in the whole world.

How do Muslims reconcile these differences in revelation? The Koran itself gives them guidance. It says: “If We (meaning Allah) abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, we bring a better one or a similar to it. Don’t you know that nothing is impossible to Allah?” (Sura 2:102)

The principle that Allah led Muhammad in progressive revelation, and the newer verses override the older ones is called “nasikh”.
Therefore the verses of the sword cancel verses talking of tolerance, kindness and religious freedom of Jews and Christians.

This principle is widely accepted in Islam (specially by Sunnis). Muhammad practiced it himself. He personally led at least 20 raids on Jewish villages where all men were slaughtered, and women and children were taken as slaves.

60% of Koranic verses talk of jihad (invasion in the name of Islam).
Christians and Jews are shown as those who corrupted their scriptures, therefore a fair target for conversion, along with the rest of non-Islamic world.

Therefore, even though Koran may be condemning killing of innocents, or attack on Christian cities, these verses have been cancelled by summons to spread Islam everywhere with whatever means necessary. :nope:


#10

This makes more sense,

They talk of peace yet they want to kill us. This jihad concept is the reason the middle east is the mess it is. They embrace the spirit of murder in Gods name which creates a ton of brutality and ignorance.

-D


#11

[quote=Darrel] … They embrace the spirit of murder in Gods name which creates a ton of brutality and ignorance.

[/quote]

Can Islam be all that bad if the Pope is seen kissing the Koran?
deceptioninthechurch.com/popekiss.html


#12

[quote=stanley123]Can Islam be all that bad if the Pope is seen kissing the Koran?
deceptioninthechurch.com/popekiss.html
[/quote]

I dont know,

Has the Catholic Church said that Islam is correct in it’s teachings or that Muhammed is an actual prophet? My interest is only in the truth.

-D


#13

You have to understand that Pope is a man of peace. Him kissing the Koran is not a sign that he believes that it is true. It is to show respect to people who revere the Muslim scripture. In addition to being a Vicar of Christ, he is a great diplomat and a politician. Pictures like that are usualy taken out of context to discredit the Pope.

In his book “Crossing the Treshhold of Hope” Pope wrote: ‘Some of the most beautiful names in the human language are given to the God of the Qur’an, but he is ultimately a God outside of the world, a God who is only Majesty, never Emmanuel, God-with -us. Islam is not a religion of redemption. There is no room for the cross and the Resurection. Jesus is mentioned, but only as a prophet who prepares for the last prophet, Mohammad. There is also mention of Mary, his Virgin Mother, but the tragedy of redemption is completely absent. For this reason not only the theology (doctrine of God) but also the antropology (docrine of man) of Islam is very distant from Christianity’. (92-93)

Pope also wrote: ‘Whoever knows the Old and New Testament, and then reads the Qur’an, clearly sees the process by which it completely reduces Divine Revelation. It is impossible not to note the movement away from what God said about himself, first in the Old Testament through the prophets, and then finally in the New Testament through his Son. In Islam all the richness of God’s self-revelation, which constitutes the heritage of the Old and New Testaments, definitely has been set aside’.

In other words if Christianity is true, Islam cannot be. :clapping: And if Islam is true Christianity cannot be. :nope:


#14

[quote=PMV]This belief never really scared me, but it annoys and irritates me at times when I try to live my faith. Any advice on how to get this rediculous belief to stop bugging me?

[/quote]

BTW, why does it bother you what people of another religion think you are going to hell?


#15

[quote=Malgosia]You have to understand that Pope is a man of peace. Him kissing the Koran is not a sign that he believes that it is true. It is to show respect to people who revere the Muslim scripture. In addition to being a Vicar of Christ, he is a great diplomat and a politician. Pictures like that are usualy taken out of context to discredit the Pope.

In his book “Crossing the Treshhold of Hope” Pope wrote: ‘Some of the most beautiful names in the human language are given to the God of the Qur’an, but he is ultimately a God outside of the world, a God who is only Majesty, never Emmanuel, God-with -us. Islam is not a religion of redemption. There is no room for the cross and the Resurection. Jesus is mentioned, but only as a prophet who prepares for the last prophet, Mohammad. There is also mention of Mary, his Virgin Mother, but the tragedy of redemption is completely absent. For this reason not only the theology (doctrine of God) but also the antropology (docrine of man) of Islam is very distant from Christianity’. (92-93)

Pope also wrote: ‘Whoever knows the Old and New Testament, and then reads the Qur’an, clearly sees the process by which it completely reduces Divine Revelation. It is impossible not to note the movement away from what God said about himself, first in the Old Testament through the prophets, and then finally in the New Testament through his Son. In Islam all the richness of God’s self-revelation, which constitutes the heritage of the Old and New Testaments, definitely has been set aside’.

In other words if Christianity is true, Islam cannot be. :clapping: And if Islam is true Christianity cannot be. :nope:
[/quote]

Thank You,

I had a feeling it was more a symbolic gesture of respect then an embrace of theology. The Popes writings prove it. Now I wonder if the highest Islamic holy man in Iran will kiss the Christian bible.

-D


#16

[quote=Darrel] They embrace the spirit of murder in Gods name which creates a ton of brutality and ignorance.

[/quote]

I would be interested in your opinion of:
Deut 13: 13-17
Numbers 31: 17-18
Joshua 10: 28-39
Thanks.


#17

[quote=stanley123]I would be interested in your opinion of:
Deut 13: 13-17
Numbers 31: 17-18
Joshua 10: 28-39
Thanks.
[/quote]

The old covenant is what God created and the orders to war by God are holy. This false religion does not fall into the same arena. Not to mention the fact that yesterdays Philistines and Amorites are todays Palestinians and Iranians. I wonder if God will summon his people to war again?

-D


#18

The wars in the Old Testament were blessed by God for two purposes.

1.They were designed to preserve the chosen nation from which the Messiah was to come for all of us. The line of David was to be preserved in order for the scriptures to be fulfilled.

2.God’s faithfulness for His chosen nation had to be shown despite their disobedience. In fact the lesson of Old Testament was that if they are obedient to God’s commands, they will win. But if they are unfaithful, the others will overcome them.

The purpose of war in Islam is quite different. They are trying to convert the whole world by whatever means necessary, not because they love us and they want us to go to Heaven.
In fact nowhere in Koran does it say the God loves something or someone. They are doing what Muhammad ordered them to do, because they believe that this is what God wants.
By killing an unbeliever, they are not trying to show him the truth, this is their attempt to merit Heaven themselves. They are following the example of their “prophet”.:frowning:


#19

[quote=PMV]This belief never really scared me, but it annoys and irritates me at times when I try to live my faith. Any advice on how to get this rediculous belief to stop bugging me?
Also, what is the TRUE Islamic view of salvation for good Jews and Christians who belief in Judgement Day and all? The Koran seems to contradict itself concerning the Jews and Christians, speaking good of them in some verses and showing a negative view of them in others. I know that there are Islamic fundamentalists, just as there are Christian fundamentalists that claim all non-followers of their religion are damned. But are there Muslims who are not fundamentalists (like Catholics who aren’t Protestants) that do NOT teach that all Non-Muslims will be damned, like Catholicism teaches that not ALL non-Christians will be damned?
[/quote]

Hi
Catholicism does not teach that all non-christian’s will be damned.
The CCC teaches that muslims are included in God’s plan of salvation.
[font=Verdana]The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” (CCC, par. 841)[/font]

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I would believe scripture if I were you.
In Him and Him Only, Dave.


#20

[quote=oudave]Hi
Catholicism does not teach that all non-christian’s will be damned.
The CCC teaches that muslims are included in God’s plan of salvation.
[font=Verdana]The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” (CCC, par. 841)[/font]

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I would believe scripture if I were you.
In Him and Him Only, Dave.
[/quote]

I would have to agree that they worship the same God when they pray. How God will Judge is a matter for God alone. The fact that Muslims are following the teachings of a false prophet doesn’t change that. One also can not negate the fact that they are teaching that Christ is a prophet and that they wish to execute a world conquest for God.

They have had many hundreds of years to do so. In the year 2005 we see the Jews back in there home land. They are backed by the greatest military super power in the history of the world, which also happens to be a (primarily) Christian nation. This alone speaks volumes.

-D


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