The Issue of Mary


#1

if Mary is “co-mediatrix”(or whatever it’s called) alongside Jesus, wouldn’t that make her omniscient and omipotent? if she can hear all our prayers and see all, and be everywhere at once like God, would that not make her “god-like”, and therefore worshipped by the catholic church?

sorry, i’m sure you guys probably get this question alot.


#2

Far as I know,
Mary is not able to hear our prayers of her own power - she is able to hear our prayers because God allows her to. Same goes for all the saints.


#3

Here is an article on the subject:

catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0609fea1.asp

Here is the Catechism on the subject:

967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512 ****


970 "Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

Footnote 512 above references P. 62 of Lumen Gentium:

  1. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until The eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)

For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.

The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows it through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:


#4

Who ever said she could “see all” and “be everywhere at once”? That is certainly not Catholic teaching.

And about worshipping Mary, I always like to point out that if Catholics do actually worship Mary then they must be psychotic, because at the very same time they loudly and continuously deny that they worship her. By contrast, have you ever heard Catholics loudly and continuously denying that they worship God? And what kind of nut denys the very deity that they worship? That is surely a recipe for bringing disaster on the (non)worshipper’s head!


#5

i haven’t read through all this b/c i have to go. but i assumed it was a belief that she could “see all” and “be everywhere at once” if she could hear everyone’s prayers to her simutaneously, and perform miracles all over the world and appear in people’s ice boxes, etc.

and would god give her the power to be equal to jesus

i will explain better later, gotta go!

thx in advance!


#6

Don’t Mary and all the Saints exist with God in eternity? So that kinda frees up the time issue of receiving prayers and observing events and stuff. I personally wonder though about how she participates in personal redemption. Like how and in what way is Mary apart of my salvation?


#7

There are a few important points which I think can make this much easier for you to grasp.

The first is that even if Mary were omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient - if she were all-powerful, all-present, and all-knowing - this wouldn’t make her equal to Christ because there would be one thing she could never have - existence in and of herself. Christ, being God, simply exists. One might even say He is existence. He requires nothing else to exist, nothing else can exist without Him, and He, as Aquinas would say, exists by necessity. He has to exist.

None of this is true for Mary. She exists only because of Christ. She exists only by the virtue of having been created by Christ. She does not have any existence or substance of her own right, and apart from Christ willing her into existence at every moment, she would simply - pop - dissapear, ceasing to exist, just like the rest of us.

The confusion comes in because we tend to think of omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience as being qualities that define God or make Him unique, but this is not so. God is defined and made unique by His existence, not by His abilities. It is now what God can do that makes Him God, but what God is that makes Him God - namely, existence.

That being said, is Mary omnipotent, ominpresent, and omniscient? The answer is no, for one simple reason. Neither she, not any other creature, can hold any of these characteristics in relation to God. Mary does not have any sort of ultimate power over God. She certainly doesn’t know God completely; nobody can. Even for the most glorified soul in Heaven, there is always a part of God that cannot be known. To know God completely would be to be God - this is, consequently, exactly what Jesus is. He is the total self-knowledge of God, which is why He is called the Word. So Mary is not all-knowing, because there is that “part” of God that nobody but He can know. Whether she is omnipresent is another matter, because it depends largely on what a person means by it. She certainly isn’t present in the same way God is.

However, Mary is powerful and knowing up to the limit of what a creature can be. She is the most powerful and knowing of creatures. One might say she knows everything except God in His fullness, and that she is powerful over everything except God. The question is, is this just? Is this something God would do?

As Catholics, we believe that God did do this. He didn’t do it because He had to, of course, but because in His Love, He chose to. He followed perfectly His own command to honor thy mother. However, it is important to note that as Catholics we believe God does this for all those who come to Him through Jesus Christ, to greater and lesser degrees.

Through Christ, we are made “partakers of the Divine Nature,” according to 2 Peter 1:4. What does this mean? It means that God shares His nature with us. He shares with us His “abilities,” namely, His knowledge and power. It is God who can heal, but He shares this with us, and so the apostles could heal. It is God who has eternal life, but He shares this with us, and so we can have eternal life. It is God, in the Second Person of the Trinity - who is the Son of God, but He shares this with us so we can be children of God. It is God alone who Loves, and yet God shares His own Love with us so that we may Love. This is, in one sense, what it means to be in the body of Christ. We, being part of His body, share that which belongs to Him. Thus, He is the Mediator, and we all share mediatorship by virtue of being in Him. He is the one Mediator, but if we weren’t mediators in some sense, we wouldn’t be a part of His body. Mary shares the greatest degree of God’s Divine Nature, and so she shares Christ’s Mediatorship to the greatest degree, and so she is given the title “Mediatrix.” It is the very same principle by which all Christians are caled “priests.” We share in Christ’s priesthood.

It is in justification that we come to share in this Divine Nature, as the Holy Spirit is poured into our hearts (cf. Romans 5:5). As we, having been justified, Love in accordance with God’s will and do good works, we grow in this justification (cf. James 2:24) and so grow in how much we share the Divine Nature. Because Mary was, through the gift of God, conceived without Original Sin, at every moment in her life she lived in perfect accordance with God’s will. Thus, she grew to share in His Nature to the greatest degree a creature could, and this is the reason for all of the things that the Church holds about her, whether in her abilities, her titles, or anything else.

Hope this helps. :slight_smile:


#8

hey! i found something that i can actually understand! thank you all for your input! for some reason, and people have been trying to explain it to me, it didn’t make sense until i read this even though it’s saying basically the same thing that everyone else was. it’s strange how the mind works. thanks everybody! :))

i don’t know if it’s against any rules to post links, so i’ll just say that it’s from catholic source dot com under “An Explanation of the Coredemptrix of Mary Title”

hope that’s okay! it’s a great article!

and thanks everybody for the input! lazerlike, very well put! thanks!


#9

Mary is prefigured even in the beginning.

“…And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

Even before Mary was created by God, He already has a plan to have two redeemers. The woman and the seed of the woman. Mary and Jesus. You can not argue with the scripture.

Mary shares so fully with Jesus’ glory because She shared so fully in His sufferings.

If God has lifted Mary up in a pedestal, what rights do people have to bring her down.

But you must understand one thing…the Catholic never worships Mary… Mother Mary wouldn’t want you to do that… here’s the truth…

Latria - Reverence given to God alone.

Hyperdulia - Reverence given to my Mother Mary

Dulia - Reverence given to the saints.

If one understands this, then he is not far from the truth.

PEACE BROTHER!


#10

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