the Ka'baa idols


#1

Is it true that according to Muslims Allah told them that they could pray to him through the idols at the Kabaa? Also I am interested on the tale of that place. How did it go from a temple with 360 idols carved into it to a place of extreame holiness fror Muslims? I am just curious and asking a perfectly reasonable question.


#2

[quote=Chazemataz]Is it true that according to Muslims Allah told them that they could pray to him through the idols at the Kabaa? Also I am interested on the tale of that place. How did it go from a temple with 360 idols carved into it to a place of extreame holiness fror Muslims? I am just curious and asking a perfectly reasonable question.
[/quote]

Muslims can only direct prayers to God ALONE…we are not allowed to use middle-men…especially objects that we create with our own hands. We are told in the Quran that these idols can neither harm us nor benefit us…b/c they cant hear anything we say or have any power to help us in any way.

He said: “Do they listen to you when ye call (on them), or do you good or harm?”

For ye do worship idols besides Allah, and ye invent falsehood. The things that ye worship besides Allah have no power to give you sustenance: then seek ye sustenance from Allah, serve Him, and be grateful to Him: to Him will be your return. (Chapter #29, Verse #17)

The pagans of 7th century arabia used the area as a place for their idols…where “pilgrims” would come every year. When the Prophet peace be upon him, came back to Mecca…he destroyed all the idols in the kaaba.


#3

[quote=Chazemataz]Is it true that according to Muslims Allah told them that they could pray to him through the idols at the Kabaa?
[/quote]

No, it’s not true. Muslims never, and I mean NEVER prayed to idols, or through them. Nor did God ever make such a pronouncement.

Also I am interested on the tale of that place. How did it go from a temple with 360 idols carved into it to a place of extreame holiness fror Muslims? I am just curious and asking a perfectly reasonable question.

The Qur’an says the first house (temple) of worship appointed for mankind by God was the Ka’bah in Mecca. Muslims hold that it was built by Abraham (PBUH) and his son, long before the official coming of the faith of Islam. But with time, the Arabs lost the pure monotheist faith of Abraham (PBUH), and adopted pagan idols and became polytheists. It was at this point that they filled their great grandfather’s shrine with idols.

When Muhammad (PBUH) came along and preached Islam, when he marched into Mecca triumphant, he destroyed all 360 of the idols in the Ka’bah and turned them into a pile of rubble on the street. This, he considered, and Islam teaches, was a restoration of the Ka’bah’s once holy status, one it had long before Islam.

Thus, one could say the Ka’bah was always holy to Muslims. All Islam did was to restore it to its former glory.


#4

[quote=Shenango]No, it’s not true. Muslims never, and I mean NEVER prayed to idols, or through them. Nor did God ever make such a pronouncement.

The Qur’an says the first house (temple) of worship appointed for mankind by God was the Ka’bah in Mecca. Muslims hold that it was built by Abraham (PBUH) and his son, long before the official coming of the faith of Islam. But with time, the Arabs lost the pure monotheist faith of Abraham (PBUH), and adopted pagan idols and became polytheists. It was at this point that they filled their great grandfather’s shrine with idols.

When Muhammad (PBUH) came along and preached Islam, when he marched into Mecca triumphant, he destroyed all 360 of the idols in the Ka’bah and turned them into a pile of rubble on the street. This, he considered, and Islam teaches, was a restoration of the Ka’bah’s once holy status, one it had long before Islam.

Thus, one could say the Ka’bah was always holy to Muslims. All Islam did was to restore it to its former glory.
[/quote]

I thought there was 7 or 8 stones of a metorite still there? Is that untrue?


#5

[left][font=Times]“Before Muhammad appeared, the Kaaba was surrounded by 360 idols, and every Arab house had its god. Arabs also believed in jinn (subtle beings), and some vague divinity with many offspring. Among the major deities of the pre-Islamic era were al-Lat (“the Goddess”), worshiped in the shape of a square stone; al-Uzzah (“the Mighty”), a goddess identified with the morning star and worshiped as a thigh-bone-shaped slab of granite between al Talf and Mecca; Manat, the goddess of destiny, worshiped as a black stone on the road between Mecca and Medina; and the moon god, Hubal, whose worship was connected with the Black Stone of the Kaaba. The stones were said to have fallen from the sun, moon, stars, and planets and to represent cosmic forces. The so-called Black Stone (actually the color of burnt umber) that Muslims revere today is the same one that their forebears had worshiped well before Muhammad and that they believed had come from the moon. (No scientific investigation has ever been performed on the stone. In 930, the stone was removed and shattered by an Iraqi sect of Qarmatians, but the pieces were later returned. The pieces, sealed in pitch and held in place by silver wire, measure about 10 inches in diameter altogether and several feet high; they are venerated today in patched-together form.)” (The Joy of Sects, Peter Occhigrosso, 1996) [/font]

[font=Arial]Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said “No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you.” (Sahih al-Bukhari 2:667, 675, 676, 679, 680)[/font][/left]


So it would seem these stones are hold overs from Arabia’s pagan past. Even today pilgrims kiss the stones in Mecca.


#6

[quote=iamrefreshed]I thought there was 7 or 8 stones of a metorite still there? Is that untrue?
[/quote]

According to the story of Abraham after he settled Hagar and Ishmael in Bakkah (now known as Makkah) he and Ishmael set out to find a cornerstone to build the first house of worship to God. In all of the area there was no stone to be found. Ishmael went in one direction and Abraham another. When Ishmael came back he saw that his father Abraham was already building the house. He asked his father wear he got this cornerstone to start construction since he had searched everywhere and couldnt find one. Abraham told Ishmael that God sent it down from the heavens.

Deviant Arab tribes set up false gods at the site many years later. When Islam came, the Prophet Muhammad had all of the idols destroyed. Since then, in the history of the kabbah, it has been destroyed and rebuilt in various wars… but the the cornerstone has always been protected and eventually was encased in glass at the site of the kabbah.

It does not serve as a item or idol of worship… it is merely encased there as a historical monument that was left to use by Abraham. The reason we pray in a circle around the kabbah is simply because that is how Abraham and Ishmael prayed and dedicated this House of Worship after they completed its construction.

In Islam God cannot be represented by anything on earth, in the heavens, under the earth or any part of creation. God is Unique from Creation and seperate from it. Thus nothing human, animal, stone, wood, earth, stars, moon, can be worshipped or set up as a charm or center of worhsip or a partner with God.

We dont worship the stone… its merely a historical monument that is not to be moved from the site that Abraham built.

BrJimC :cool:


#7

[quote=BrJimC]According to the story of Abraham after he settled Hagar and Ishmael in Bakkah (now known as Makkah) he and Ishmael set out to find a cornerstone to build the first house of worship to God. In all of the area there was no stone to be found. Ishmael went in one direction and Abraham another. When Ishmael came back he saw that his father Abraham was already building the house. He asked his father wear he got this cornerstone to start construction since he had searched everywhere and couldnt find one. Abraham told Ishmael that God sent it down from the heavens.

Deviant Arab tribes set up false gods at the site many years later. When Islam came, the Prophet Muhammad had all of the idols destroyed. Since then, in the history of the kabbah, it has been destroyed and rebuilt in various wars… but the the cornerstone has always been protected and eventually was encased in glass at the site of the kabbah.

It does not serve as a item or idol of worship… it is merely encased there as a historical monument that was left to use by Abraham. The reason we pray in a circle around the kabbah is simply because that is how Abraham and Ishmael prayed and dedicated this House of Worship after they completed its construction.

In Islam God cannot be represented by anything on earth, in the heavens, under the earth or any part of creation. God is Unique from Creation and seperate from it. Thus nothing human, animal, stone, wood, earth, stars, moon, can be worshipped or set up as a charm or center of worhsip or a partner with God.

We dont worship the stone… its merely a historical monument that is not to be moved from the site that Abraham built.

BrJimC :cool:
[/quote]

BrJimC, On what authority do you know about the the rituals of the Hajj?

Were these rituals different in pagan arabia, before the advent of Islam?

When the kiblah was changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, were there idols still in Mecca?


#8

[quote=hawk]BrJimC, On what authority do you know about the the rituals of the Hajj?

Were these rituals different in pagan arabia, before the advent of Islam?

When the kiblah was changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, were there idols still in Mecca?
[/quote]

On what authority? Im a Muslim and have learned these things from Seerah (History).

The rituals were taught by Abraham and his followers followed them… however after time passed the Arabs followed the rituals that Abraham taught and added many idols as well… when Islam came it restored what Abraham practiced and the rituals he followed and destroyed the idols and pagan rituals.

This took time… Islam had to grow politically and militarily in order to completely wrest power over teh Kabbh from the Pagan Arab tribes… thus the issue of Qiblah has no bearing on the practice of Muslims… they worshipped God as Abraham worshipped and as soon as they got power…they seized the opportunity to destroy all traces of pagan ritual and practice.

If they had tried to do this too early then the Pagan Arabs were too strong and most certainly would have crushed the small band of believers in the Prophet. God gave the Prophet the strategy and the strength when the time was right.

This is the seerah (history). That is the authority.

BrJimC :cool:


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.