The Last Judgement

Hi Everyone.

I am confused on a topic. It is about the last judgement.

According to my Youcat book, “the last judgement will take place at the end of the world, at the second coming of Christ. All who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come.forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgement”. Now I am confused between the last judgement and our personal judgement. Our personal judgement occurs at the moment of death, and results in either separation, full communion with God, or purgatory. Our soul goes to meet God but the body decays, and our soul awaits the day where it is reunited with our new body during the last judgement. Now here are my questions. Do we therefore get judged a second time on the last judgement, or is that just for the people at that time? Also, when we wait for our soul to be reunited with our new bodies, does that mean we don’t experience full happiness in God because our body is not with us? Does that mean millennials are correct where our souls stay dormant until the second coming of Christ, where we reign with Christ for 1000 years?

Here is an extensive article about the Last [General] Judgment from the older Catholic Encyclopedia:

newadvent.org/cathen/08552a.htm

alliWantisGod. You realize that the Particular and The General Judgments are different but I will define this anyway as there may be “lurkers” who do not understand this.

[LIST]
*]Particular Judgment = Our judgment when we die
[/LIST]

[LIST]
*]General Judgment = When EVERYONE is judged by God in front of EVERYONE
[/LIST]

alliWantisGod.

I cannot go into detail here but I will try to get back to this thread in the next couple of days.

You asked . . . .

QUOTE:

Do we therefore get judged a second time on the last judgement, or is that just for the people at that time? Also, when we wait for our soul to be reunited with our new bodies, does that mean we don’t experience full happiness in God because our body is not with us? Does that mean millennials are correct where our souls stay dormant until the second coming of Christ, where we reign with Christ for 1000 years?

At the General Judgment EVERYONE is judged and EVERYONE sees the perfect judgment of God carried out upon everyone else. This is to glorify God.

Although we die and get judged immediately upon our bodily death (the “Particular Judgment”), the EFFECTS of our our good works continue on until the end of time.

A proverbial “George Bailey situation” (from It’s AWonderful Life) “on steroids” with some theological corrections from the movie. And EVERYONE, not just George, gets to see not the POSSIBLE effects of a what-if scenario, but the REAL effect you had on those even after you died.

Unfortunately also our effects of SINS continue on too.

You will see all of this for YOU at least so far, at your Particular Judgment.

EVERYONE will see all of this and its effects for the remainder of time at the General Judgment.

Your sins have effects upon the world after you go too.

These will be taken into account in a public fashion at the General Judgment.

Your judgment in the sense of your eternal destiny, is done at your particular judgment. It won’t change.

Also at the end of time, we all get our bodies back in a glorified manner and will be part of our glory . . . assuming we go to Heaven.

Our bodies will be part of our suffering for all eternity, if we choose to condemn ourselves.

The Roman Catechism does a great job of expounding on all of this.

All forms of millenarianism (where Christ returns and sets up a mere earthly kingdom) are to be condemned.

So the answer to your question . . .

QUOTE:

Does that mean millennials are correct where our souls stay dormant until the second coming of Christ, where we reign with Christ for 1000 years?

The answer to this is “no”.

Millenarianists are NOT correct.

CCC with bold and ul mine . . . .

QUOTE:
**
The Church’s ultimate trial**

CCC 675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

CCC 676 The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.

God bless.

Cathoholic

As you mentioned, when we die our body decays regardless of whether we were righteous or wicked. This means that the body is not judged immediately when we die. The judgment of the body is postponed until the Last Judgment when it is resurrected and receives the same judgment that the soul received immediately after death.

The body and its two mortal souls: vegetative and animal.

Thomistic soul theory is speculative, not part of the Magisterium.

What about this term “judgement of the body”?

The destiny of body after the last judgment will be exactly the same of the soul.

So the body (and its speculative mortal souls) receives the judgment of the soul and it’s not judged by itself.

All forms of millenarianism (where Christ returns and sets up a mere earthly kingdom) are to be condemned.

If this is true, why does the bible go into such detail about the description of how this ‘earthly kingdom’ will be once Jesus returns? Talking about no more oceans or bodies of water, how Israel will be the ‘capitol of this new world’, and yet other ‘nations’ will still exist outside of Israel, and how they will come to Israel once per year to praise God, etc. I can find post all the verses that talk about this…?

All forms of millenarianism (where Christ returns and sets up a mere earthly kingdom) are to be condemned.

If this is true, why does the bible go into such detail about the description of how this ‘earthly kingdom’ will be once Jesus returns?

I am not sure what you are referring to, but I would guess because at the end of time it is a “New Heavens and New Earth”.

(Please show me the “earthly kingdom” verses you are alluding to so I can see the context mikekle.)

So… If I make it to heaven at my personal judgement, I will forever be with God, but I will be shown the bad things I have done during the final judgement? Doesn’t Christ forgive all sins and heal us from our past? Now why wouldn’t God just show me what I have done wrong during my personal judgement? Now if someone gets sent to hell during their personal judgement, why would they need to be raised up from hell to see their mistakes…only to be sent back down to hell again? that is very frustrating and complex to understand… What about those in purgatory that remain their till the final judgement? Where do they go? Will those at the end of the world also go through a personal judgement or just a final judgement?

Now If we are to reign with Christ in the new earth for 1000 years in our new bodies, does that mean we can get married and do the same stuff we do now except without sin?

OK alliWantisGod.

I looked at your initial post and concluded . . .

I am not sure what you are referring to, but I would guess because at the end of time it is a “New Heavens and New Earth”.

But now I know you are NOT referring to a “New Heavens and a New Earth”.

How do I know?

Because of your later post. Because on your later post you said:

Now If we are to reign with Christ in the new earth for 1000 years in our new bodies, does that mean we can get married and do the same stuff we do now except without sin?

So it appears to me, that you are alluding to the “Thousand Year Reign” in Revelation 20 (correct me if I am wrong since you still have not clarified this).

REVELATION 20:1-7 1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while. 4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison . . .

The “Thousand Year Reign” in Revelation 20 is NOT talking about a mere earthly Kingship of Jesus.

The “Thousand Year Reign” is just the reign of Christ since His death and Resurrection.

The “Thousand Year Reign” concerns the last days (the time of Christ up until the end of time).

The “Thousand Year Reign” is going on right now.

CCC 440b . . . the true meaning of his kingship is revealed only when he is raised high on the cross. . . . .

We just celebrated a special day recognizing this Reign of Christ the King as a Church. The Feast of Christ the King (see also CCC 2105).

The 1000 years here in Revelation 20 is a figurative expression for “a long time”. It is not a literal thousand years.

Just like the “great chain” here in Revelation 20 is a figurative expression too. You cannot “chain” down a spirit. satan and his minions are spirits. They are fallen angels. Not susceptible to literal “chains”.

“The nations” in verse 3 above are the goyim. The non-Jews in the world.

The “first resurrection” is Baptism. The “first resurrection” for us, in a sense is our being united to Christ’s Resurrection.

ROMANS 6:3-5 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

If you have some other “thousand year” reign you are alluding to other than what I have concluded you mean please correct me.


In the Old Testament . . . . Priests, Prophets, and Kings were the anointed ones (messiahs). Priests, Prophets, and Kings were in a sense, messiahs (anointed ones).

Jesus is THE “anointed one” par excellence.

In Baptism we are gifted with a share in His Priesthood, Prophethood, and Kingship (which is WHY we in a sense can “rule” as King with Jesus).

For example, talking about the priesthood of all of the Baptized (not the ministerial Priesthood) the CCC says . . . .

CCC 784 On entering the People of God through faith and Baptism, one receives a share in this people’s unique, priestly vocation: “Christ the Lord, high priest taken from among men, has made this new people ‘a kingdom of priests to God, his Father.’ The baptized, by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood.”

This is likewise true of our being united (“shares”) to the Kingship of Christ.

CCC 786a Finally, the People of God shares in the royal office of Christ. He exercises his kingship by drawing all men to himself through his death and Resurrection. Christ, King and Lord of the universe, made himself the servant of all, for he came “not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” For the Christian, “to reign is to serve him,” . . . .

AlliWantisGod. You had many questions here.

So… If I make it to heaven at my personal judgement, I will forever be with God, but I will be shown the bad things I have done during the final judgement? Doesn’t Christ . . . .

ROMAN CATECHISM

Two Judgments

In explaining this subject the pastor should distinguish two different occasions on which everyone must appear in the presence of the Lord to render an account of all his thoughts, words and actions, and to receive immediate sentence from his Judge.

The first takes place when each one of us departs this life; for then he is instantly placed before the judgment-seat of God, where all that he has ever done or spoken or thought during life shall be subjected to the most rigid scrutiny. This is called the particular judgment.

The second occurs when on the same day and in the same place all men shall stand together before the tribunal of their Judge, that in the presence and hearing of all human beings of all times each may know his final doom and sentence. The announcement of this judgment will constitute no small part of the pain and punishment of the wicked; whereas the good and just will derive great reward and consolation from the fact that it will then appear what each one was in life. This is called the general judgment. . . . .

Reasons For General Judgment

It is necessary to show why, besides the particular judgment of each individual, a general one should also be passed upon all men.

Those who depart this life sometimes leave behind them children who imitate their conduct, dependents, followers and others who admire and advocate their example, language and actions. Now by all these circumstances the rewards or punishments of the dead must needs be increased, since the good or bad influence of example, affecting as it does the conduct of many, is to terminate only with the end of the world. Justice demands that in order to form a proper estimate of all these good or bad actions and words a thorough investigation should be made. This, however, could not be without a general judgment of all men.

LOTS of questions here. So let’s get started.

If I make it to heaven at my personal judgement, I will forever be with God, but I will be shown the bad things I have done during the final judgement?

You will be judged at your particular judgment and ALL will see your judgment at the General Judgment too.

Since this is out of the realm of time we don’t know how this works.

But EVERYONE sees ALL at the General Judgment.

That’s probably WHY St. Luke can say . . . .

LUKE 8:17 17 For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light.

And

LUKE 12:2-3 2 Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 3 Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

And

ECCLESIASTES 12:13-14 13 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.

And

1st CORINTHIANS 4:5 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.

You can see also Matthew 10:26, Mark 4:22, and others.

Read Matthew 25:31-46 too.

Here is the CCC . . . .

CCC 1039a In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man’s relationship with God will be laid bare. The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life . . . .

You asked about . . . .

Doesn’t Christ forgive all sins and heal us from our past?

Yes. But the “healing” isn’t complete until the end of time when we have our glorified bodies back etc.

That’s WHY St. Paul can say . . .

PHILIPPIANS 1:6 6 And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Now why wouldn’t God just show me what I have done wrong during my personal judgement?

So EVERYONE (including the Angels) can see His perfect Judgment. It gives glory to God.

Now if someone gets sent to hell during their personal judgement, why would they need to be raised up from hell to see their mistakes…only to be sent back down to hell again?

We don’t know if that is what occurs. This is poorly understood. Since this all occurs out of the realm of time, if MAY be all in a “moment”. We just don’t know how being out of time works.

What about those in purgatory that remain their till the final judgement? Where do they go?

**All in Purgatory are on their way to Heaven. ** Some will go to Heaven sooner. Some later. Some won’t be in Heaven until the end of time. This depends on many factors (too many to get into here).

Sorry cathaholic I didn’t make myself clear with the 1000 year reign. I was confused by your original reply, and was in a rush because I was nearly done my break at work. So I kind of rushed through reading your reply

Sorry cathaholic I didn’t make myself clear with the 1000 year reign. I was confused by your original reply, and was in a rush because I was nearly done my break at work. So I kind of rushed through reading your reply

No problem.

I just wanted to be responding to what your questions were.

For any “lurkers” here that may not know, the “New Heavens and a New Earth” is upon the end of time where we all get our bodies back and not only mankind, but all of creation is renewed in a way superior to anything Adam and Eve ever saw.

Sadly there will also be those who have chosen to seperate themselves from God’s Grace.

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