The Latest: Insider Says Saudis Decided 'Enough Was Enough'


#1

nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/03/world/middleeast/ap-ml-saudi-arabia-the-latest.html?_r=0

A person familiar with the Saudi government’s thinking in Washington says the kingdom severed relations with Iran because “enough was enough,” adding that Riyadh was less concerned with how its decision affects diplomatic efforts led by the United States, including the Syrian peace talks or the Iran nuclear deal.

The person, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss diplomacy, said Sunday that the Saudi government is tired of what it sees as Tehran “thumbing its nose at the West,” including the recent launch of ballistic missiles, while no one does anything about it.

"Every time Iran does something, the United States backs off," the person said.


#2

Interesting article, I can’t judge the situation. I know a lot of counter-info, propaganda is out there.


#3

Senator Marco Rubio considers Saudi Arabia a strong ally and thinks we should go to Egypt as well.

Some say the 911 report was redacted to cover up some things, this all would take quite a bit of study.

Off topic from original post but related in other matters:

Chaidar, a reformed former member of the radical group Islamic State of Indonesia (NII), explained that terrorist groups in Indonesia tended to buy into the radical teachings of Wahabism, a hard-line strain of Islam native to Saudi Arabia.

Wahabism itself, he added, comprised three distinct ideologies, namely Murji’ah, Jihadi and Takjiri, with the former two prevalent in Indonesia.

Chaidar warned that the approximately 100 people who had returned from Syria in the past month should be closely watched, as they might be affiliated to the Islamic State (IS) group, which espouses Wahabi Takjiri ideology.

“Adherents of Takjiri view non-adherents as infidels. They imitate the modus operandi of Al Qaeda, with suicide bombing and brutal attacks. For them, such acts are the true basis of Islam,” he said.


#4

Seems to me when we are talking Caliphate, Caliph, Sharia law and Jihad. Your talking radical Islam. Saudi Arabia refused to heed to the UN in Sept also in human rights treatment of the gay community. As to above I believe this stirs Jihad in Iraq and elsewhere in the holy war.

Consider this from Oct.

Fifty two Saudi inciters, both academics and clerics, have called on the public to “hurry” to Syria where they should be fighting Russian forces.

The clerics, some of which are members of the International Union of Muslim Scholars, called on “all those who are able, and outside of Saudi Arabia, to answer the calls of jihad” and to fight alongside one of the extremist groups facing Russian forces.

english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/10/05/Fifty-two-Saudi-clerics-scholars-call-for-fight-against-Russian-forces-in-Syria.html

USA has lost trust with SA, but that doesn’t change what they always believed. it just forces them to act in their own best interest. Our involvement with Iran certainly created an issue. You have a basic arms race with nuclear power now and encouraged as they see by Obama.


#5

It is exactly the nuclear threat of Iran that SA is responding to. The fact that Iran feels free to renege on even the weak nuclear deal that was signed without even a murmur from the United States has Saudi Arabia in high gear now in pushing for more and more proxy wars against Iran.


#6

Saudi Arabia will cut off all air traffic with Iran: Saudi FM tells Reuters

dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2016/Jan-04/330128-saudi-arabia-will-cut-off-all-air-traffic-with-iran-saudi-fm-tells-reuters.ashx

Saudi Arabia will cut off all commercial ties with Iran
uk.reuters.com/article/saudi-arabia-will-cut-off-all-commercial-idUKL8N14O2I320160104

Bahrain and Sudan cut all ties with Iran, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE), home to hundreds of thousands of Iranians, downgraded its relations.
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-saudi-security-iran-fury-idUKKBN0UH00320160104


#7

Who knows how this “opposite view” of parties will proceed. The only thing that we do seem to know by this time is that the fire is being fueled. Does that make the consumer of world news a little more anxious about who is in charge? Russia’s fighter jet and pilot’s death by Turkey is still sending smoke. Iran’s air threat to a U.S. carrier is fogging the air. Iran’s launch of an ICBM made an unsettling noise. Iran’s attack on the Saudi Embassy is still ongoing. Wonder how many Saudi’s will be taken hostage as Iran did to the U.S. under the Administration of the one term President JImmy Carter. Or will they suffer beheading as both parties are prone to do.

What do we do about the Obama nuclear deal supposedly reached. Is it clearly a conclusion that Iran is going to receive all the billions of dollars that sweetened the great negotiations? How much money passed into their hands to act the Obama/Kerry play of achieving a goal of peace that is completely bogus? Does anyone know the status of that? It seems like the most appropriate action to take is to make absolute certain they do not receive one dime of money from any source.

Can anyone explain why ISIS has run a black market oil transport business to the tune of unknown millions for at least a year, and who were their customers? Did they get to unload in Turkey? When the U.S. targeted the truck convoys (at least once that we know of) why were leaflets dropped warning of the attack in one hour so the drivers could escape. Were they not members of ISIS? Who called that decision? So many problems left to ferment.

If anyone can defend the last 7 years of Obama and his crew, do it without lying please.


#8

I would not admonish Turkey of wrongdoing, however concerning oil, it does appear there is a middle man in Kurdish-controlled territories and a diagram analyzes how it may be transported and may be distributed.

rferl.org/contentinfographics/infographics/27416449.html


#9

It doesn’t seem like such a difficult task for the Commander in Chief to appoint our military intell to FIND OUT about ISIS making millions off of black market oil sales, who is buying, and where is delivery being made. They were running “camel caravans” for crying out loud!

No of course its not such a difficult task - its done with intent.


#10

Appears so, since FDR the US had that friendship based on oil for protection with SA. The Egypt MB issue with Mubarak, then the red line in Syria-Assad, and then the Iran deal forced them to act in their own best interest imo. Protests escalating throughout the middle east also most notable in Baghdad with the Shia. Another incredibly tedious situation for Obama especially in how this tribal situation affects the isis dilemma. We’ll see soon with Iraq backed by US air support heading to Mosul after Ramadi.

Its difficult in that Ramadi and the Isis progress just started to seem to be addressed with a positive effect. I can’t imagine how this would help. It seems to be a avenue for more proxy wars as you said. Latest…

news.yahoo.com/iran-says-saudi-arabia-looking-excuse-fuel-tensions-071734328.html

Putin also made a public statement he would sit down with both sides to ease tension and hopefully resolve the conflict. The Obama administration appears content with anyone involving themselves but them.

washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-administration-keeps-its-distance-from-saudi-arabia-iran-fight/2016/01/04/4310f820-b312-11e5-a842-0feb51d1d124_story.html

With no chance to undo the execution, Kerry and other U.S. officials who have communicated with the Saudis have focused on trying to walk back the breach in diplomatic relations. So far, the Saudis have not agreed, officials said, but they have not said no. The administration also believes that it has received some assurance that Nimr’s execution will not be followed by a similar fate for his nephew.


#11

For those interested, cartoons from over there depicting this Iran Saudi Arabia situation.

rferl.org/content/iran-saudi-arabia-cartoons-tensions/27474115.html


#12

I’d like to know more of this story, because it is printed doesn’t mean we know all but this should not be going on.

REVEALED: Juvenile prisoners and mentally ill killed in Saudi executions

One prisoner arrested at 13 and others apparently suffering mental illness were among 47 executed in Saudi Arabia
Prisoners arrested when they were children and others suffering from mental illness were among dozens of inmates recently executed in Saudi Arabia, exclusive sources in the kingdom have told Middle East Eye.

But little has been reported about the 46 other prisoners who were executed in 12 cities across the kingdom.

Four were Saudis from the Eastern Province - including Nimr. The other 43 were accused of having links to al-Qaeda, and some were convicted of either carrying out, planning, or supporting attacks in the kingdom between 2003 and 2006.

Four of the 43 were convicted of banditry, a crime that is punished in Saudi Arabia by having alternate limbs cut off on opposite sides of the body, followed by beheading and the display of the corpse.

That emboldened part is pretty horrible. I don’t know if they carry out crucifixions there, I read something once on it but it was not precisely clear (I think the article implied the crucifixion happened once the person was dead, hence, display of the body, corpse phase). We shouldn’t have an ally who does things like this.

The same website ran an article a few days ago on how much in arms the UK has sold them in the past 5 years, billions worth.


#13

Amputations have been a part of sharia justice since the time of Mohammed, He too used his sword freely for amputations. This is not just Saudi Arabia, but in Iran too, where the thief gets his hand cut off. It is especially humiliating punishment, since that means that the person will have to eat with the same hand as he cleans himself with after going to the bathroom. (Cutlery and bathroom tissue paper are nicetieis of Western culture).
The new law under sharia in Hamas-run Gaza is for crucifixion of dead Christian bodies. Crucifixion is not the means of execution but the means of publicly humiliating the Christian who runs afoul of the law. This is how I understand it to be in Saudi Arabia too. It are the corpses of executed that are displayed, the heads of the beheaded stuck on the village gate posts and the like, to serve as a warning to others.

Saudi Arabia is not an ally of the West, but there existed a strategic cooperation. This is like the strategic cooperation that existed between America and Iran in the time of the shah until the feckless foreign policy of President Carter fumbled that ball.

Rest assured that further fumblings on maintaining strategic partnerships in the region will not all of a sudden lead to an eruption of democracy and humanitarian societies springing up. The role that people in the West ought not to be to pressure their governments to break these strategic cooperative ventures. However, as long as these strategic agreements are in place, we can put pressure on our governments to put pressure on these autocrats for social reform every time they publicly meet.


#14

I’m not sure I agree with or understand how you came these conclusion. SA is certainly an ally of the west. During the Gulf war US Troops were sent to SA for the purpose of protecting the Kingdom well before we took back Kuwait and the rest of that mess. They are, as most ME states are, in a tough spot right now It’s becoming increasingly unlikely that a regional war can be avoided. It’s becoming increasing unlikely that a third world war can be avoided as far as that goes. With War in the offing and SA holding not only oil but the two most holy pieces of real estate in the Muslim world. They have to be feeling like they are in the cross hairs. Are they wishing they had done more to control Daesh?

There is no way a dictatorship is going to survive in the post Arab Spring ME. So, there is not much use considering putting pressure on them to reform. If Putin can save Assad’s regime. They will hold such a small piece of real estate that it will depopulate quickly. Then the world will see it for what it really is a piece of land that Russia is interested in using.

Our Nuclear deal with Iran is worth having until war breaks out. It will provide the opportunity for the I.A.N.A. to observe what is going on there. Of course after war breaks out the USA, and Israel will destroy all of their Nuclear facilities anyway. I think Iran understands this.


#15

danielpipes.org/995/the-scandal-of-us-saudi-relations

even if the link above contradicts some of what I have said in the posts above, it does give a very good summary of what has poisoned American-Saudi relationships the most since 1945.

What lies behind this pattern of obsequiousness? …

The Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, helpfully hinted at an answer in a statement boasting of his success cultivating powerful Americans. “If the reputation … builds that the Saudis take care of friends when they leave office”, Bandar once observed, “you’d be surprised how much better friends you have who are just coming into office.”[35] This effective admission of bribery goes far to explain why the usual laws, regulations and rights do not apply when Saudi Arabia is involved. Hume Horan, himself a former U.S. ambassador to the Kingdom, is the great and noble exception to this pattern. He says this of his former colleagues:

There have been some people who really do go on the Saudi payroll, and they work as advisers and consultants. Prince Bandar is very good about massaging and promoting relationships like that. Money works wonders, and if you’ve got an awful lot of it, and a royal title- well, it’s amusing to see how some Americans liquefy in front of a foreign potentate, just because he’s called a prince.


#16

This is the article that perhaps better explains the position I have been putting forth about the nature of the relationship between American and Saudi Arabia

danielpipes.org/401/saudi-arabia-not-friend-or-foe

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - friend or foe of America? Having been asked exactly this question on such shows as CNN’s “Crossfire” and ABC’s “Nightline,” I’ve come to the conclusion that the answer is “neither.” Rather, Saudi Arabia is a rival.

Saudi Arabia has been friendly to the extent that, since a dying Franklin D. Roosevelt met an aging King Ibn Saud in 1945, its leaders have kept their part of a crucial bargain: They provide oil and gas and in return Washington provides security.

Saudi Arabia has broken their part of the agreement repeatedly. OPEC is the most tangible institution representing this.

But, when it comes to a nuclear Iran, this is a clear change of American policy, and it means that the security blanket that America has always provided SA is useless. All the bribes in the world is not going to keep America in their back pocket, because what a billion Muslims will see is that it is the ayatollahs that have the bomb now.

What a nuclear Iran means for the Saudis is loss of leadership for a billion Muslims worldwide. Allah is on the side of the powerful Muslims, in popular Islamic theology, and a nuclear Iran spells out that Allah is on the side of the Shia.

This is an intolerable situation for Saudi Arabia. Their American ace in their back pocket has proven itself to be weak and useless under feckless American leadership. That arrangement is over. As erratic as it may be, Saudi Arabia is taking charge of its security, and that means that the two rival movements of Islam are now at war at each other like never before.


#17

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.