The lesson often overlooked with Adam and Eve


#1

The lesson most of us learn, or at least limit our memories to in regards to Adam and Eve is the lesson of disobedience.

Yes, that is a crucial lesson. For us that like to point fingers and fall into the trap of thinking like a hypocritical pharisee, we do not move past the deeper lesson. At least the lesson that I see in regards to the relationship between God and man. The revealing of the heart of mercy, and our reaction to it.

Genesis 3

But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?" 10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid." 11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" 12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it." 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."


Now, in this verse we can see the heart of God's mercy from the beginning.

We know if disobedience by itself was the cause of the fall of man, then we would not read where God called to Adam. He called out, Where are you? If it was disobedience all by itself, would God have been calling out to Adam? Would he given him any opportunity to confess his disobedience. He is God, and he will have mercy and whomever HE chooses. So says Romans 9.

He asked Adam if he had taken from the forbidden tree.

He did not accuse. He did not have this eureka moment. No, he called to him, and asked him. He knew he had sinned certainly. So, why ask the question? Why call to him, when he knew where he was?

That, is the very heart of Gods mercy. He calls out to us. He asks, where are you? He asks you why are you hiding yourself from Him.

It is our reaction to this call that determines our fate if you will.

How did Adam respond? (now it is this response that will cause problems.)
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

By saying the woman YOU PUT HERE, is actually holding God in contempt for his disobedience. That is what I do when I make any excuse, and no one on earth has a bag of excuses like me. In essence, every one of our excuses is actually blaming God for our sins.

Now, I have said this to people and immediately they think I am saying Christ would not have had to come down and be sarificed for the disobedience. No, that is not what I am saying.

What I am saying however is we know how God reacts to a contrite heart. Even before Christ came down. We know that he does not spurn a contrite heart. Unless Psalms is a lie when it says He will not spurn a contrite heart.

God will lead us to the river, but HE will not drink it for us. He will convict us of our sin, but HE will not confess our sins for us.

We need to acknowledge our sins, and accept what ever chastisement that comes with it, like mature adults. We need to choose to lay our pride down.

In other words, the greater sin of both Adam and Eve is pride. Eve btw also made an excuse by saying the serpent tricked her.

For those of us that cannot move past the fact that they were disobedient and love to accuse them of that, and insinuate that you would have never given in to temptation is quite frankly the spirit of the hypocrite. The spirit of the accuser. The spirit of the pharisee.

It is loaded with a lot of presumption, and self exaltation. Learn the lesson from the last supper, when Peter exalted himself and said he would never betray Christ. Where John leaned on Jesus's chest and asked who was it that was to betray. By doing that, he acknowledged that he is capable of it. One of them went on to deny Christ, and the other had the grace to be at the foot of the cross by trusting in His mercy.

The most painful things I go through in life is remembering my sins. The accuser beats me down with them. I tend to think like Adam often and blame God in my way for my sins. I blame God for allwing me to be born. I blame the world and the temptations etc etc etc etc etc.

If you do that like me, you know that is the wrong road. Hence, the beauty of our sacrament of reconciliation. How short are the lines at your church on Saturdays? I think in some ways many American Catholic churches (and around the world for that matter) lets us down a little bit. I know they have a lot on their plates, and it is a bit unfair for me to suggest this. However, I think the Sacrament of reconciliation ought to be open far more often than one day a week for 45 minutes or so. I feel sometimes that need a confessional next to me all of the time.

Yes, my scrupulosity gets out of hand at times.

The point is, do not be ashamed to confess your sins. The grace is there, and God is always calling out to us.

From the beginning.


#2

The lesson is less about obedience then it is about trust.

God would rather have our trust than our obedience.

-Tim-


#3

Excellent point.


#4

God would rather have our love, of course not for His benefit but for ours.


#5

Real Lesson = GOD doesn’t need us if we are ignorant and refuse to take chances.

Tree of Knowledge was supposed to kill if eaten, Eve took a bite then offered to Adam = first case of failed murder-suicide. Women have been attempting to perfect that in various forms ever since.


#6

Huh? :confused:

Why single out women? Murder-suicides, at least statistically, are more often carried out by men than by women. And anyway, looking at it in this way is to miss the point of Genesis 3 entirely. God is just, we are disobedient, He is merciful, and He promises a Saviour who will be born of the woman’s lineage (Genesis 3: 15). There’s no need to be snide about it.


#7

Huh?

Why single out women? Murder-suicides, at least statistically, are more often carried out by men than by women. And anyway, looking at it in this way is to miss the point of Genesis 3 entirely. God is just, we are disobedient, He is merciful, and He promises a Saviour who will be born of the woman's lineage (Genesis 3: 15). There's no need to be snide about it.

Don't know why you're so offended, are you a woman? Prove me wrong first.

P.S. - Pearl Jam quotes about peace fill me with rage.


#8

[quote="Least, post:5, topic:322432"]
Tree of Knowledge was supposed to kill if eaten, Eve took a bite then offered to Adam = first case of failed murder-suicide. Women have been attempting to perfect that in various forms ever since.

[/quote]

Genesis 3:4
4But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die.

John 8:44
44You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires.** He was a murderer from the beginning, **and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Jones, D. A. (2009). Old Testament Quotations and Allusions in the New Testament (Ge 3:4–Jn 8:44). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

I found this Quote extremely curious after reading what you wrote.


#9

[quote="TimothyH, post:2, topic:322432"]
The lesson is less about obedience then it is about trust.

God would rather have our trust than our obedience.

-Tim-

[/quote]

Wouldn't trusting in God,naturally lead to obedience?They aren't mutually exclusive.;)


#10

[quote="Jeanne_S, post:9, topic:322432"]
Wouldn't trusting in God,naturally lead to obedience?They aren't mutually exclusive.;)

[/quote]

Yes, they are related. :) The Catechism mentions them both:

CCC 397 Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God's command. This is what man's first sin consisted of. [278] All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness.

[278] Cf. Gen 3:1-11; Rom 5:19.


#11

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Hebrews 5:9

I think God would want our trust and obedience.


#12

Yes, and that’s really the basis of the New Covenant, in fact. Faith/trust in God would’ve kept Adam in communion with Him and this relationship ultimately would’ve led to increasing love for God. We inherited our lack of faith/communion from Adam and Jesus came to reconcile man with God, restoring that relationship.


#13

[quote="CatholicKnight3, post:1, topic:322432"]
He will convict us of our sin, but HE will not confess our sins for us.

[/quote]

Well said and brought on a long moment of pause and reflection.


#14

[quote="Jeanne_S, post:9, topic:322432"]
Wouldn't trusting in God,naturally lead to obedience?They aren't mutually exclusive.;)

[/quote]

No, they are not exclusive, but obedience by itself comes from fear while trust is from love.

**There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love.* (1 John 4:18)*

I think trust was really Adam and Eve's issue. They didn't trust that God had given them all they really needed. When I read the Old Testament, I see a story of a people who failed to trust God, failed to trust that he would do what he promised.

At the end of the day my faith is based on the answer to one question... Do I believe that God will raise me from the dead at the end of time? If I believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead then the answer is yes, I believe that I will also be raised from the dead. I trust God.

Not sayin' its easy... I have my moments... but I trust that God will raise me from the dead just like Christ was raised from the dead. I obey God's commandments because I trust that he has given them to me for my own good and not because I am afraid of hell.

-Tim-


#15

:rotfl:

I certainly needed a laugh today, and picturing myself as someone of the opposite gender (I’ve been male for 33 years, and have absolutely no desire to change) couldn’t help but make me chuckle. Thanks! :smiley:

On the murder-suicide issue, I’m afraid I don’t have Indian statistics (the category isn’t coded on the Crime Bureau website), but there is this fairly well-known study from the United States:

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1556-4029.2010.01473.x/abstract;jsessionid=24A4EF195418B64BE32FA2787855212E.d01t03?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

Not denying that women can fall into terrible sins (we all do, it’s part of our fallen condition) but completed suicide, and murder-suicide, are generally commoner in men than in women.

P.S. - Pearl Jam quotes about peace fill me with rage.

As a character in an old British sitcom used to say, “Thousand apologies”. (Curious about the “peace” bit, though; that particular quote is from a song about a troubled relationship, and it doesn’t contain the word “peace”; I even checked with Ctrl-F!) :smiley:

Now let’s get back to Adam and Eve. :thumbsup:


#16

I think we need to be very careful about boasting. There was truly only one that was divinely obedient. Yes, we need to be obedient, but lets not insinuate to the point of boasting that any of us are measuring to perfect stndards of the bible.

Right when we boast of our righteousness is right when we are acting like pharisee that beat his chest bragging about himself.

Paul writez that if he boasts, he will boast of his weakness.

I need to be careful if I ever boast like Peter at the last supper where he swore he would never betray the Lord.

Never exalt yourself.


#17

**

Fear of God,if I understand correctly,is born out of love for Him and a desire to please Him,not offend Him in a ny way.This is called “filial fear”.One comes to detest sin for this reason.


#18

I always thought the lesson of Adam and Eve was not so much disobedience, but trying to be God.
Only God has true wisdom and knowledge of good and evil. Only He can distinguish between the two and deal with evil. That's why He gave us rules to follow, our Catholic "original instructions" about how to live.

Plus it is utter arrogance to think a human might be able to fathom the true nature of things.

This is the warning, I think, of Genesis. And we in the West are really reaping the rewards of our hubris these days. I'm thinking SSM and fertility treatments that include three or more parents DNA, GM foods, destruction of Creation and God's other Creatures. Not to mention abortion and on and on and on....


#19

[quote="Deltadeliquent, post:18, topic:322432"]
I always thought the lesson of Adam and Eve was not so much disobedience, but trying to be God.
Only God has true wisdom and knowledge of good and evil. Only He can distinguish between the two and deal with evil. That's why He gave us rules to follow, our Catholic "original instructions" about how to live.

Plus it is utter arrogance to think a human might be able to fathom the true nature of things.

This is the warning, I think, of Genesis. And we in the West are really reaping the rewards of our hubris these days. I'm thinking SSM and fertility treatments that include three or more parents DNA, GM foods, destruction of Creation and God's other Creatures. Not to mention abortion and on and on and on....

[/quote]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

An excellent post that has plenty of Scriptural support: Genesis 3, Ezekiel 28, Philippians 2: 6-11.

One of the most important lessons is that when we replace God with ourselves - or with a "god" who is just a projection of our own desires - then we are in trouble, physically and spiritually. Thank you for pointing this out. :)


#20

Genesis 3:4
4But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die.

John 8:44
44You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Jones, D. A. (2009). Old Testament Quotations and Allusions in the New Testament (Ge 3:4–Jn 8:44). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

I found this Quote extremely curious after reading what you wrote.

In John 8:44 JESUS was accusing those who claimed a higher bond with GOD while at the same time accusing JESUS of not following GOD. What’s* your *point there.

THE LORD SEES, from HIS timeless standpoint all the way from before “In the beginning . . .” to this very period here.

And beyond. HE KNEW Adam (we) would disobey, I REITERATE MY INITIAL COMMENT:

“GOD doesn’t need us if we are ignorant and refuse to take chances.” I meant that, as a faulted-man, but a man with children. I love my children greatly, and derive a great deal of pleasure in raising them. There has been many times that I have had to stifle a laugh at the willful and wontoness of my children when they were very small and can only imagine what HIS INFINITE LOVE is in comparison.

I imagine (and greatly hope) that HE gets as much of a “kick” out of ‘us’ as he has allowed me to get out of my children. I pray daily that I am permitted the privilege to continue serve him as one who ever so slightly approaches something slightly more sophisticated [ALBEIT, SADLY PERHAPS LESS CHILDLIKE???]. If I am flippant, I mean no irreverernce and pray, and ask you to join my prayer, that the LORD not allow me to cause even the shadow of your foot fall outside the path that HE intends for you, and that I never cause you, as HIS child, to be separate from HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST.

And I still hate Pearl Jam, LORD forgive me.


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