The logic behind Muslim belief


#1

Check out this link… it’s pretty interesting. It’s funny to look at the responses (or lack thereof?) that this simple question generated. When people tell you Islam relies on circular logic to validate their beliefs, they are not kidding!

Why do YOU believe the Quran is the work of God?


#2

Well to a certain extent Christianity does as well, our claims about the Bible aren’t quite so extreme though.


#3

[quote=LilyM]Well to a certain extent Christianity does as well, our claims about the Bible aren’t quite so extreme though.
[/quote]

The Bible doesn’t stand by itself like the Quran does, or rely only on itself for validation though.


#4

[quote=exoflare]Check out this link… it’s pretty interesting
[/quote]

It may be “pretty” interesting to you because that Shia forum is not belonged to the mainstream Islam and second, it is a forum.
Even if it was belonged to a mainstream Islamic community, It is not sure that learned people of Islam must be visiting that forum on a constant basis and presenting their case or refute others’ accusations.

Take example of this forum, do you think each and every post of Catholic of this forum is a true representation of Catholicism/RCC?

In one his posts, one Catholic Member of this forum, admitted that Jesus actually died as a man and not as a God. Now, you ask yourself what it is to you (Catholics), if Jesus died as a man like us?
You don’t even know for sure what will God do with those innocent babies of any faith/non-faith if they die in their infancy/before the age of reason. The most, someone of your Church came up so far is a LIMBO answer, because a clear-cut answer to this dilemma will demolish the whole structure of your RCC.


** Miracles of the Qur’an **
The unprecedented style and the superior wisdom inherent in the Qur’an is conclusive evidence confirming that it is the Word of God. Apart from this, there are a number of miracles verifying its Divine nature, one of them being that, 1,400 years ago, it declared a number of scientific facts that have only been established thanks to the technological breakthroughs of the 20th century. In this book, in addition to the scientific miracles of the Qur’an, you will also find messages regarding history and mathematics. 120 pages with 73 pictures in colour, FULL TEXT AVAILABLE

**The Qur’an Leads the Way to Science **
The way to examine the universe and all the beings there in and to discover God’s art of creation and announce it to humanity is “science”. Therefore, religion adopts science as a way to reach the details of God’s creation and therefore encourages science. Just as religion encourages scientific research, so does scientific research that is guided by the facts communicated by religion yield very rapid and definite results. This is because religion is the unique source that provides the most correct and definite answer to the question of how the universe and life came into being. 200 pages with 228 pictures in color, FULL TEXT AVAILABLE

**For Men of Understanding **
One of the purposes why the Qur’an was revealed is to summon people to think about creation and its works. When a person examines his own body or any other living thing in nature, the world or the whole universe, in it he sees a great design, art, plan and intelligence. All this is evidence proving God’s being, unit, and eternal power. For Men of Understanding was written to make the reader see and realise some of the evidence of creation in nature. Many living miracles are revealed in the book with hundreds of pictures and brief explanations. 288 pages with 467 pictures in color, FULL TEXT AVAILABLE

**The Miracle Of Human Creation **
The essence of a human being composed of 60-70 kilos of flesh and a mass of bones was originally contained in a drop of fluid. There is no doubt that the creation of man, who is endowed with the faculties of thinking, hearing and seeing, and a highly complicated body structure, from a drop of water, comes about through an extraordinary course of development .This book aims to explain the miraculous creation of a human being from the planned activity of cells that reveals once again the eternal power of the Creator, His limitless knowledge and intelligence that surround and embrace the whole universe. 200 pages with 187 pictures in color, FULL TEXT AVAILABLE.

harunyahya.com/c_miracles_quran.php ]
harunyahya.com ]


#5

MOVIES
Miracles of the Qur’an

The unique style of the Qur’an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago, and the superior wisdom it represents are definite proof that it is the word of Allah.
Additionally, the Qur’an has many miraculous aspects which prove that it is sent by Allah. One of them is that some scientific facts, which we have only been able to discover by the technology of the 20th century, were stated in the Qur’an 1400 years ago.
These facts which could not have been known at the time of the Qur’an’s revelation once again show to the man of today that the Qur’an is the word of Allah.
Duration: 65 minutes

**Qur’an Leads the Way to Science **

Scientific observation introduces man to the mysteries of creation, and ultimately, to God’s eternal knowledge, wisdom and power. As stated by Albert Einstein, “science without religion is lame”, which is to say, that science, unguided by religion, cannot proceed correctly, but rather, wastes much time in achieving results, and worse, is often inconclusive.
Islam is a religion of reason that encourages science. Watch this film to see how the Qur’an leads the way to science by calling on people to reflect upon and examine the signs of creation around them.
Duration: 60 minutes

**The Creation of Man **
This film is about your story. How you came to be from a single drop of liquid? How you were carefully designed, built, fed, and raised in your mother’s womb?
When you see the marvelous design, plan and intricacy in each tiny step that leads to your existence, you will recall that this is not the work of the blind forces of nature, but the work of an all-Wise and all-Powerful Creator.

ARTICLES
The Islamic Origins of Modern Science
AUDIO BOOKS
Miracles Of The Qur’an
Qur’an Leads the Way to Science
The Miracle In The Honeybee
RELATED SITES
Miracles of the Quran

harunyahya.com/c_miracles_quran.php ]
harunyahya.com ]


#6

Jesus Christ did die as a man, the significance of his death lies in the fact that he was and is not just ‘a man’, he is ALSO God incarnate and thus able to save us from our sins with his physical death.

If ‘a man’ dies, I agree it doesn’t really affect me personally. But if ‘a man’ dies in order to save my life or prevent some other harm to me, then it most certainly matters to me! Jesus died for all of our sakes, to save us from the physical and spiritual separation from God caused by human sin. Therefore his death is one of the most important events in human history - right alongside the creation of humans in the first place.


#7

The answering Islam site gives some excellent refutations of the tattered “logic” of the quran. I love when they challenge you to write a sura that rivals the quran. Of course THEY get to judge it. Do you think ANY Muslim would say “oh yes yours is better?” Heck no. Muhammed killed those who were better poets and mocked his verses.


#8

[quote=exoflare]Check out this link… it’s pretty interesting. It’s funny to look at the responses (or lack thereof?) that this simple question generated. When people tell you Islam relies on circular logic to validate their beliefs, they are not kidding!

Why do YOU believe the Quran is the work of God?
[/quote]

What the funny thing is that you look at the responses in forum for Shia who don’t represent the mainstream Islam. And you attribute that to Islam !!!.
And which logic you talking about while Christianity missed it when it comes to the Trinity and the concept of god.

Peace.


#9

[quote=LilyM] But if ‘a man’ dies in order to save my life or prevent some other harm to me, then it most certainly matters to me! Jesus died for all of our sakes, to save us from the physical and spiritual separation from God caused by human sin. Therefore his death is one of the most important events in human history - right alongside the creation of humans in the first place
[/quote]

Dear LilyM:

But the man on the cross was not willing to die, in the first place, but crying loudly, audibly to his God and complaining “ELI, ELI or ELOI, ELOI why hast thou forsaken me?” These words tells clearly that this man (whoever he was) was not ready for this type of death.

A man who dies to save others, dies happily and willingly by being a strong man and faces all difficulties like a man.

Then if you say “Jesus was not God when he died”. Then atleast at the time of his death he was indeed seperated from God (if I assume God was incarnated in him). Now, why should you believe/assume such no-sense., in the first place? Why he cannot be a prophet and ‘a man approved of God’ as Peter testified after the Pentecost? (The Acts Of The Apostles 2:22)

Why do you (Christians) must believe that he was God also?

The reason I will tell you; Jesus in fact never claimed to be God nor he asked people to worship him. He was ‘a man approved of God’ meaning a Prophet of God just like Prophet Moses. But those lip-service Jews who were in power were afraid of him because Jesus was demanding them to follow the Divine Law, that he came to restore. For, Jews following the Divine Law in it’s entirety means death sentence to their power/hold and also risk for Roman Authority under which they were enjoying their rule. So they tried to put their words in Jesus’ mouth and blamed him that he is claiming Divinity. As per the Torah, God is not a man. Thus act of blaspheming God was punishable by death. In order to kill him, they wanted to misuse Jewish theology. Then they also tried to create problem between the Romans and him.

When eventually Jews with the collaboration of Romans did succeed in convicting him and sentencing him, either:

  1. Jesus escaped right before that moment and hide somewhere or

  2. They mistook someone else as Jesus and killed him thru Crucifixion and thought they did kill Jesus.
    In these both possibilities Jesus actually did not die on the Corss. Now, let’s see how?

  3. Jesus escaped right before hs arrest:
    You may say howcome he was able to escape from crucifixion? The answer is very simple. It was God through him Who performed 'miracles, wonders and signs". Jesus used to revive dead people with God’s permission. So what was the big deal for him to escape from such insult and getting naked in public and letting sinners kick him and even spit on him, when he had performed more miraculous things with his God’s permission. And then God is God of Love also, it is not befitting for the Majesty of Loving God that He would let His ‘approved man’ die with such insult and humiliation. And not to mention this verse:

Hebrews 5:7

Who in the days of his [Jesus’] flesh, with a strong cry and tears, offering up prayers and supplications to him that was able to save him from death, was heard for his reverence.


Even if you assume that the man on the Cross was Jesus himself who cried to his God, then it is UNLIKELY that same God who heard his strong cry and tears, his prayers and supplications to Him, did not accept his prayers of his last moments of his life on Earth but let him die mercilessly. What kind of a mercy and love is this, anyway?

Now coming to the second possiblity:

  1. They mistook someone else as Jesus and killed him thru Crucifixion and thought they did kill Jesus

cont…


#10

Now coming to the second possiblity:

  1. They mistook someone else as Jesus and killed him thru Crucifixion and thought they did kill Jesus

It is possible that those who went to arrest Jesus, got the wrong man and mistook him as Jesus. Because the man on the cross when shouted/cried loudly he called his God as **ELI, ELI ** or ELOI, ELOI. He did not call Abba, Abba. And some people that stood close to him there and heard his cry, said: This man calls Elias/Elijah.
If you say it was Jesus who called his God with this name (ELI or ELOI) then this name is never uttered before by Jesus (in all Gosples). He is reported to have called his God as *The Father * or * God * but never ELI nor ELOI. (Although there are lot of information about him is missing according to John…that is another subject to discuss!)

This makes people think that either the man on the cross was not Jesus or if he was Jesus then he hide this name of God all of his life from public that even people around him, after hearing **ELOI or ELI ** thought he might be calling Elijah/Elias…Amazing…!!

Then not to mention the “prophecy” of Jonah that was not fulfilled, if Jesus indeed had died.

Then you may ask, how Christians’ sins are going to be forgiven by God if Jesus did not die on the cross? I would say, there is no need for Jesus to die for your sins, in the first place because…

cont…


#11

[quote=freedomm]Dear LilyM:

But the man on the cross was not willing to die, in the first place, but crying loudly, audibly to his God and complaining “ELI, ELI or ELOI, ELOI why hast thou forsaken me?” These words tells clearly that this man (whoever he was) was not ready for this type of death.

A man who dies to save others, dies happily and willingly by being a strong man and faces all difficulties like a man.

Then if you say “Jesus was not God when he died”. Then atleast at the time of his death he was indeed seperated from God (if I assume God was incarnated in him). Now, why should you believe/assume such no-sense., in the first place? Why he cannot be a prophet and ‘a man approved of God’ as Peter testified after the Pentecost? (The Acts Of The Apostles 2:22)

Why do you (Christians) must believe that he was God also?

The reason I will tell you; Jesus in fact never claimed to be God nor he asked people to worship him. He was ‘a man approved of God’ meaning a Prophet of God just like Prophet Moses. But those lip-service Jews who were in power were afraid of him because Jesus was demanding them to follow the Divine Law, that he came to restore. For, Jews following the Divine Law in it’s entirety means death sentence to their power/hold and also risk for Roman Authority under which they were enjoying their rule. So they tried to put their words in Jesus’ mouth and blamed him that he is claiming Divinity. As per the Torah, God is not a man. Thus act of blaspheming God was punishable by death. In order to kill him, they wanted to misuse Jewish theology. Then they also tried to create problem between the Romans and him.

When eventually Jews with the collaboration of Romans did succeed in convicting him and sentencing him, either:

  1. Jesus escaped right before that moment and hide somewhere or

  2. They mistook someone else as Jesus and killed him thru Crucifixion and thought they did kill Jesus.
    In these both possibilities Jesus actually did not die on the Corss. Now, let’s see how?

  3. Jesus escaped right before hs arrest:

You may say howcome he was able to escape from crucifixion? The answer is very simple. It was God through him Who performed 'miracles, wonders and signs". Jesus used to revive dead people with God’s permission. So what was the big deal for him to escape from such insult and getting naked in public and letting sinners kick him and even spit on him, when he had performed more miraculous things with his God’s permission. And then God is God of Love also, it is not befitting for the Majesty of Loving God that He would let His ‘approved man’ die with such insult and humiliation. And not to mention this verse:

Hebrews 5:7

Who in the days of his [Jesus’] flesh, with a strong cry and tears, offering up prayers and supplications to him that was able to save him from death, was heard for his reverence.


Even if you assume that the man on the Cross was Jesus himself who cried to his God, then it is UNLIKELY that same God who heard his strong cry and tears, his prayers and supplications to Him, did not accept his prayers of his last moments of his life on Earth but let him die mercilessly. What kind of a mercy and love is this, anyway?

Now coming to the second possiblity:

  1. They mistook someone else as Jesus and killed him thru Crucifixion and thought they did kill Jesus

cont…
[/quote]

Three things:

  1. Jesus was willing to be obedient to God the Father’s will, and that will was for Jesus to die on the cross for all of mankind’s sins.

  2. If Jesus didn’t really want to fulfill that will, he could’ve called angels down to protect him or allow Peter to do more than cut off the guard’s ear. But he didn’t. He submitted himself to arrest and eventually death.

  3. He would not have been crucified if Pontius Pilate didn’t authorize it. Yes, the Sanhedrin “condemned” him to death, but since the Roman government was the civil government in Judea, only the Romans could sentence anybody to death.


#12

Anyway, we’re getting seriously off topic here freedomm, running the risk of getting the thread closed again like the other one. Not to mention that YOU haven’t brought anything new to your rebuttal - it’s all been rehashed from other threads, as would be my answers, so we’d be arguing in circles.

I’m not going to bother responding to you in future, it’s not like you’re listening to me and I certainly don’t get anything useful out of anything you’re saying - except perhaps a deeper appreciation of my own faith and a deeper dislike of your version of Islam.

Cheers


#13

So, if God hasn’t given us the answer to a certain question we just should make something up?

  1. Jesus said no one can enter the kingdom of God without baptism

  2. He made no exceptions for children(that would be adding to Jesus’ words)

  3. He didn’t tell us what would happen to unbaptized innocents.

  4. God is just, so we assume that unbaptized innocents will be saved somehow.

  5. We don’t simply make up doctrines to fill what some may consider uncomfortable voids in Jesus’ teachings. We have faith that he is in control and we simply do what he asked us to do.

  6. The doctrine of limbo was never official church teaching, it was just someone’s idea that was put forth as a possibility.


#14

I think this thread has been hijacked even before it got started. What a pity. I respectfully ask our Muslim members here to show more courage and to stand up for your own religion. If everytime we talk about Islam and you’d attempt to deviate away from the topic, it only shows that it’s indefensible. And if it’s so, then it’s not worth defending anyway.


#15

[quote=freedomm]Dear LilyM:

But the man on the cross was not willing to die, in the first place, but crying loudly, audibly to his God and complaining “ELI, ELI or ELOI, ELOI why hast thou forsaken me?” These words tells clearly that this man (whoever he was) was not ready for this type of death.

[/quote]

Christ was repeating the words of Psalm 22 which were written 1,000 years before and prophetically referred to him. His divine nature could not be separated from his human nature. As Archbiship Fulton J. Sheen wrote in his book Life of Christ, "sin also has spiritual effects such as a sense of abandonment, separation from God, loneliness. This particular moment He willed to take upon Himself that principal effect of sin which was abandonment."
Remember he took upon himself the sins of the world. He died on the cross for our sins and so he allowed himself to feel what man might feel as if he himself were guilty which of course he was not. Otherwise, how could the author of Hebrews have written, “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weakness, but one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet never sinned.” (Heb 4:15)?


#16

[quote=Reuben J]I think this thread has been hijacked even before it got started. What a pity. I respectfully ask our Muslim members here to show more courage and to stand up for your own religion. If everytime we talk about Islam and you’d attempt to deviate away from the topic, it only shows that it’s indefensible. And if it’s so, then it’s not worth defending anyway.
[/quote]

I was expecting this right off the bat, anyway. But at least I’m hoping that the more this happens over and over again, it will only serve to further demonstrate the very point being alleged.


#17

To Lily M,

(Continuation of my last post, on this thread)

Then you may ask, how Christians’ sins are going to be forgiven by God if Jesus did not die on the cross? I would say, there is no need for Jesus to die for your sins, in the first place because…

**
Only the father, since he violated rights, and robbed, and did what was not good among his people, shall in truth die for his sins.

You ask: “Why is not the son charged with the guilt of his father?”

[INDENT]Because the son has done what is right and just, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live.

Only the one who sins shall die. The son shall not be charged with the guilt of his father, nor shall the father be charged with the guilt of his son. The virtuous man’s virtue shall be his own, as the wicked man’s wickedness shall be his own .

But if the wicked man turns away from all the sins he committed, if he keeps all my statutes and does what is right and just, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

None of the crimes he committed shall be remembered against him; he shall live because of the virtue he has practiced.

Do I indeed derive any pleasure from the death of the wicked? says the Lord GOD. Do I not rather rejoice when he turns from his evil way that he may live?

And if the virtuous man turns from the path of virtue to do evil, the same kind of abominable things that the wicked man does, can he do this and still live? None of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered, because he has broken faith and committed sin; because of this, he shall die.

You say, “The LORD’S way is not fair!”

Hear now, house of Israel: Is it my way that is unfair, or rather, are not your ways unfair?
When a virtuous man turns away from virtue to commit iniquity, and dies, it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die.

But if a wicked man, turning from the wickedness he has committed, does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life;
since he has turned away from all the sins which he committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. ** [/INDENT]
----Ezekiel 18:18-28

You all Christians should inscribe these above verses in PURE GOLD and hang in your Churches instead of idols of imaginary Jesus/Mary. Because allowing idols is calling for anathema:

** Deuteronomy 7:26**

**Neither shalt thou bring any thing of the idol into thy house, lest thou become an anathema, like it. Thou shalt detest it as dung, and shalt utterly abhor it as uncleanness and filth, because it is an *anathema./*B]

And what is anathema?

Anathema”…is, a thing devoted to utter destruction. **
drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=4&ch=21&l=3&f=s#x ]

So these verses [Ezekiel 18:18-28] shoud be foundation of your faith as Jesus came to restore the Commandments of God and his mission was limited to House of Israel only. What is said in these verses is the same key for Salvation and Eternal life, Jesus reminded you in:

Mark 10-17-19

And when he was gone forth into the way, a certain man running up and kneeling before him, asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may receive life everlasting? And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God. Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, bear not false witness, do no fraud, honour thy father and mother. [/INDENT]

Matthew 5:20
** I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven **

I wonder if those Scribes abd Pharisees indeed had faith in Jesus’ crucifixion as a key for their entry into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus did not say…

cont…


#18

[quote=freedomm]To Lily M,

(Continuation of my last post, on this thread)

Then you may ask, how Christians’ sins are going to be forgiven by God if Jesus did not die on the cross? I would say, there is no need for Jesus to die for your sins, in the first place because…

**
Only the father, since he violated rights, and robbed, and did what was not good among his people, shall in truth die for his sins.

You ask: “Why is not the son charged with the guilt of his father?”

[INDENT]Because the son has done what is right and just, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live**.

Only the one who sins shall die. The son shall not be charged with the guilt of his father, nor shall the father be charged with the guilt of his son. The virtuous man’s virtue shall be his own, as the wicked man’s wickedness shall be his own .

But if the wicked man turns away from all the sins he committed, if he keeps all my statutes and does what is right and just, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

None of the crimes he committed shall be remembered against him; he shall live because of the virtue he has practiced.

Do I indeed derive any pleasure from the death of the wicked? says the Lord GOD. Do I not rather rejoice when he turns from his evil way that he may live?

And if the virtuous man turns from the path of virtue to do evil, the same kind of abominable things that the wicked man does, can he do this and still live? None of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered, because he has broken faith and committed sin; because of this, he shall die.

You say, “The LORD’S way is not fair!”

Hear now, house of Israel: Is it my way that is unfair, or rather, are not your ways unfair?
When a virtuous man turns away from virtue to commit iniquity, and dies, it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die.

But if a wicked man, turning from the wickedness he has committed, does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life;
since he has turned away from all the sins which he committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. [/INDENT]
[LEFT]----Ezekiel 18:18-28[/LEFT]

You all Christians should inscribe these above verses in PURE GOLD and hang in your Churches instead of idols of imaginary Jesus/Mary. These verses shoud be foundation of your faith as Jesus came to restore the Commandments of God and his mission was limited to House of Israel only. What is said in these verses is the same key for Salvation and Eternal life, Jesus reminded you in:

Matthew 19:16-1

And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Mark 10-17-19

And when he was gone forth into the way, a certain man running up and kneeling before him, asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may receive life everlasting? And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God. Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, bear not false witness, do no fraud, honour thy father and mother.

Matthew 5:20

** I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses** that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven
I wonder if those scribes abd Pharisees were indeed had faith in Jesus’ crucifixion as a key for their entry into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus did not say unless you believe in my future crucifixion when I will die on the cross because of the betrayal of my own selected disceiple Judas, there will be no salvation for you. Why? because there was no such “plan” for dying in the first place. If you ask then why Jewish court/Romans sentenced him? The answer is simple, Jews used to kill their own Prophets and they did not have to claim the divinity in order to be killed. Simply calling them to follow the Divine Law in it’s entirety is good enough crime to get killed. And if someone uses the following words on top of that:

“Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites;…”

“Ye hypocrites!..”

“Ye wicked and adulterous generation!..”

“Ye whited sepulchers!..”

**“Ye generation of vipers!..” **

then it is enough for those Jews to make a case against him and kill him by any means they feel necessary. So, in the case of Jesus whether they did succeed in crucify him? No. They are guilty of attempted murder but not for murder because whoever was on the cross, was not Jesus.
[/quote]

:whistle: :whistle:


#19

To Lily M,

(Continuation of my last post, on this thread)

Matthew 5:20

** I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven **

I wonder if those Scribes abd Pharisees indeed had faith in Jesus’ crucifixion as a key for their entry into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus did not say unless you believe in my future crucifixion when I will die on the cross because of the betrayal of my own selected disceiple Judas, there will be no salvation for you. Why? because there was no such “plan” for dying in the first place.

If you ask then why Jewish court/Romans sentenced him? The answer is simple, Jews used to kill their own Prophets and they did not have to claim the divinity in order to be killed. Simply calling them to follow the Divine Law in it’s entirety is good enough crime to get killed. And if someone uses the following words on top of that:

“Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites;…”

“Ye hypocrites!..”

“Ye wicked and adulterous generation!..”

“Ye whited sepulchers!..”

**“Ye generation of vipers!..” **

then it is enough for those Jews to make a case against him and kill him by any means they feel necessary. So, in the case of Jesus whether they did succeed in crucify him? No. They are guilty of attempted murder but not for murder because whoever was on the cross, was not Jesus. Nor there was a need for Jesus to die to “save” you from sins that you were never born with. Children of all faith/non-faith, illegitimate or legitimate born to parents of any faith or non-faith are innocent and like angels and will go to Heaven, if they die in their infancy or before the age of reason, and there is no need to concoct a LIMBO idea, as to their Salvation, because they are born sinless. As such there is no reason for Jesus to die nor Jesus wanted to die, in the first place. Your insistance on his death is against the whole rationale of The Law and the Prophets, for which Jesus actually came to revive and not to destroy.

Whoever is saying that Jesus must die and raise in order not to make your faith in vain, is actually an enemy of all Prophets’ teachings and Christ’s whole mission. NO wonder why Paul is consider as actual founder of existing Christianity and not Jesus.


#20

Muslims have no evidence that Jesus was not crucified. NONE. There logic amounts to “Islam says so”. Not good enough for me. All the evidence we do have points to Jesus crucifixition and resurrection.


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