The logic of trinity


#1

Father and Son

  1. There is one God who has a complete and perfect idea of himself otherwise He is ignorant of himself.
  2. God is real not imaginary, if God has a complete and perfect idea of himself it must include reality so that God’s complete and perfect idea of himself is in itself real, otherwise it would be incomplete and imperfect for omitting his reality.
  3. Therefore, in one God there are two realities, one reality is that of God and the other reality is that of His complete and perfect idea of himself.
    God who eternally generates his complete and perfect idea of himself is the Father since he is the origin.
    The complete and perfect idea of himself generated eternally from the mind of God since God always has idea of himself, is the Son.(jn 1:1)
    Both Father and Son are respectively real.

Holy Spirit.

  1. Love is to give all good.
  2. God is all good
  3. Therefore when God loves,God gives himself, he cannot give goodness less than himself, he must give all good who is himself, otherwise it is not love.
    .Since himself is God…hence God gives God.

God given by God in love is the Holy Spirit.

So, we have one God Father Son and the Holy Spirit.

Where am i not logical here? what number and why?


#2

Read the Athanasian Creed to give a much better explanation than what you have written. Especially note the beginning and end, which affirm that outside the Church there is absolutely no salvation for mortals.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Etneral and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity is Trinity, and the Trinity is Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting Salvation, that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.

God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.


#3

[quote=memnoch_lover]Father and Son

  1. There is one God who has a complete and perfect idea of himself otherwise He is ignorant of himself.
  2. God is real not imaginary, if God has a complete and perfect idea of himself it must include reality so that God’s complete and perfect idea of himself is in itself real, otherwise it would be incomplete and imperfect for omitting his reality.
  3. Therefore, in one God there are two realities, one reality is that of God and the other reality is that of His complete and perfect idea of himself.
    God who eternally generates his complete and perfect idea of himself is the Father since he is the origin.
    The complete and perfect idea of himself generated eternally from the mind of God since God always has idea of himself, is the Son.(jn 1:1)
    Both Father and Son are respectively real.

Holy Spirit.

  1. Love is to give all good.
  2. God is all good
  3. Therefore when God loves,God gives himself, he cannot give goodness less than himself, he must give all good who is himself, otherwise it is not love.
    .Since himself is God…hence God gives God.

God given by God in love is the Holy Spirit.

So, we have one God Father Son and the Holy Spirit.

Where am i not logical here? what number and why?
[/quote]


Are you trying to tell us what the Trinity IS?
You use some odd verbage, but overall you are O.K…
Are you aking for one of us to explain the Mystery Of The Trinity? We can’t - the Church says the Trinity is a Mystery.:tiphat:


#4

hey guys i just ask whether what i wrote has logic since faith and reason complements each other…If the reason reaches its limit mystery begins.

i just ask whether what i wrote has logic… if it has surely it does not contradict the mystery of the trinity… for i do not claim that all of trinity is knowable by logic…But logic sheds light up to a certain extent…


#5

[quote=memnoch_lover]Father and Son…Holy Spirit.
Where am i not logical here? what number and why?
[/quote]

Hey, that was good. Keep it up :thumbsup:

[quote=Exporter] Are you aking for one of us to explain the Mystery Of The Trinity? We can’t - the Church says the Trinity is a Mystery.
[/quote]

It is a mystery. However, mystery does not mean that we can not begin to explain it. It just means that it would be impossible for us to comprehend it fully, no matter how well we explain it.

God bless,
TTM


#6

I believe I first read this somewhere in the writings of Richard of St. Victor. I paraphrase:

God has always existed, without beginning. Everything other than God, including Heaven and the angels, began to exist at some point. Thus, there was a point at which nothing existed except the eternal God.

God is eternally perfect. There is no defect in God. Therefore, God does not change, because change always means either a change from less perfect to more perfect or from more perfect to less perfect. Neither situation applies to God.

God is love. In order for love to be perfect, it must be shared. Since God is eternally perfect, it follows that God’s love must be eternally shared.

But since there was a point at which nothing existed except God, with what or whom did God share His love?

With the other Persons of the Trinity, who in turn shared their love among each other as well.

– Mark L. Chance.


#7

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