The Marlboro Man Mass

My German isn't all that great, but from what I understand, the title of this travesty is "With the blessing of the Cardinal" Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Schoenborn.

But I must admit, the ashtrays, Cowboy hats and the Confederate battle flag were nice touches to this "Mass"

Click here to view the video.

It looked like a Mass celbrated at a music festival, to me. Nothing strange about that. Europeans are much heavier smokers than Americans hence ash trays and smokes. An English translation would have been nice.

[quote="Catholic1954, post:2, topic:204571"]
It looked like a Mass celbrated at a music festival, to me. Nothing strange about that. Europeans are much heavier smokers than Americans hence ash trays and smokes. An English translation would have been nice.

[/quote]

Looks like an insult to me. Absolutely zero reverence, respect, sense of the sacred. I wonder how many of those people actually believe in The Real Presence. I can't help but be reminded of the parable of those tossed from the wedding feast.

And people wonder why Catholicism is dying in W. Europe & the Americas.

Not everyone present could have been Catholic. Any German speakers out there who can clue us in to what was going on?

[quote="Catholic1954, post:4, topic:204571"]
Not everyone present could have been Catholic. Any German speakers out there who can clue us in to what was going on?

[/quote]

What's going on? Hmmm.... the chalice being raised, and Communion being distributed kind of narrows it down.

[quote="Caveman, post:3, topic:204571"]
Looks like an insult to me. Absolutely zero reverence, respect, sense of the sacred. I wonder how many of those people actually believe in The Real Presence. I can't help but be reminded of the parable of those tossed from the wedding feast.

And people wonder why Catholicism is dying in W. Europe & the Americas.

[/quote]

Looks to me like several hundred people who could easily have wandered around the festival/fair instead took the time to attend Mass. The editing of the video made it clear that the photographer sought out "worst case" shots. There was clearly an agenda here. Several people apparently smoked during what appeared to be the homily. Several people bought food, but it wasn't clear where the food concession was relative to where the priest was. Several hundred people who neither smoked nor ate appear to have been attending to the celebrant's words. But of course if one's agenda is to put the worst possible "spin" on something - and get the chance to condemn several hundred apparently well-meaning people in the process - I suppose the video is just dandy.

it looks like a bad video with someone intending to inflict damage on the Catholic Faith. This is the kind of junk for the delete key.

[quote="Caveman, post:1, topic:204571"]
My German isn't all that great, but from what I understand, the title of this travesty is "With the blessing of the Cardinal" Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Schoenborn.

But I must admit, the ashtrays, Cowboy hats and the Confederate battle flag were nice touches to this "Mass"

Click here to view the video.

[/quote]

it would be nice if i could understand what this priest was saying.
this is a very innapropriate place for a Mass. it would be ok with me if this priest was just trying to evangelize these into the Faith, just speaking to them about the God and not having a Mass. no Mass in such a place is appropriate. that is what i see, the disrepect for the Mass and lack of understanding for the Mass. the Mass is the Worship of God by his people and not some kind of show to just anyone.

[quote="Mattapoisett64, post:6, topic:204571"]
Looks to me like several hundred people who could easily have wandered around the festival/fair instead took the time to attend Mass. The editing of the video made it clear that the photographer sought out "worst case" shots. There was clearly an agenda here. Several people apparently smoked during what appeared to be the homily. Several people bought food, but it wasn't clear where the food concession was relative to where the priest was. *Several hundred *people who neither smoked nor ate appear to have been attending to the celebrant's words. But of course if one's agenda is to put the worst possible "spin" on something - and get the chance to condemn several hundred apparently well-meaning people in the process - I suppose the video is just dandy.

[/quote]

I agree with you, thanks for pointing these things out.

It's hard to believe that whoever comes up with this kind of article full of detraction actually thinks he's doing the Faith a favor.

I hope that this wasn't an actual Catholic Mass and maybe something from a church outside of Communion with Rome like the Old Catholics.

[quote="Caveman, post:1, topic:204571"]
My German isn't all that great, but from what I understand, the title of this travesty is "With the blessing of the Cardinal" Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Schoenborn.

But I must admit, the ashtrays, Cowboy hats and the Confederate battle flag were nice touches to this "Mass"

Click here to view the video.

[/quote]

Yes, well who gave it the title "With the blessings &c"? The Cardinal, the Schonborn-haters (in order to discredit him) or the group who sponsored the Mass to co-opt him? The title could be very misleading.

I'm old enough to remember the Jonestown massacre -- afterward it turned out First Lady Rosanne Carter had written a letter to Jim Jones a year earlier praising him for his work with the poor.
I suspect something similar here; the Cardinal (or an aide) sent a letter blessing their "work" or "ministry", certainly NOT the Mass shown on the video.

This Mass took place at the Danube Island Fest in June. The video was highly critical of what it termed a liturgical abuse.

The pastor of Vienna‘s cathedral parish was the celebrant. He stated that the musically Western-themed Mass was being held with Cardinal Schönborn‘s approval and that the Cardinal sent his greetings. The venue was a multi-purpose stage area where tables had been set up for people attending the concerts which went on all weekend. Special seating appropriate to the Mass had been provided in front of the tables. The first row was occupied by the festival organizers, all in costume. As for the Confederate flag -- it‘s just an American artefact; the Viennese don‘t know its significance or don‘t care.

So behind the seated Mass community there were these tables, and people sat there and ate and smoked, nobody told them not to, and no doubt many who had never even been to Mass were just watching out of curiosity. At Communion time the celebrant invited all those who considered themselves properly disposed to partake. Some of those who did had not kept the fast, out of ignorance we can charitably assume. In the programme there had been a notice about receiving Communion which didn‘t exclude (and might have been understood as inviting) baptized and believing non-Catholics.

Not an ideal situation certainly, but lucky the European Catholic who hasn‘t experienced the like, or worse.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who rush to defend this type of "Mass". And people wonder why The Church is dying in W. Europe and N. America.

[quote="Caveman, post:13, topic:204571"]
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who rush to defend this type of "Mass". And people wonder why The Church is dying in W. Europe and N. America.

[/quote]

I don't think anyone was defending the Mass per se but questioning the video which definitely appears to have been edited to make +Schonborn look as bad as possible.

Thanks to Hlafdige for providing some actual facts. Other than fire the celebrant as pastor of the Cathedral I'm not sure what the Cardinal's critics expect. My understanding is that liturgical abuse was already rampant in Vienna before Cardinal Schonborn arrived on the scene.

He appears not to be a very good administrator but the same might be said of Cardinal Ratzinger who, as Archbishop of Munich was more interested in academics and left the actual running of the Archdiocese to others.

I do wonder how much power our Bishops have evn though they have the responsibility for what goes on in their dioceses. They can't "fire" their priests except in the most extreme circumstances. If they do try to discipline priests there is the danger that parishioners will rally around the pastor, damaging his authority.

I would encourage everyone to check Fr John Zuhlsdorf's blog: www.wdtprs.com His contention is that change will take time but has begun with the retirement (and dying off) of the "hippie" spirit-of-Vatican II generation and that the Holy Father has taken several steps, especially the motu proprio to bring back the TLM that will have long-term positive consequence. "Brick by brick" as Fr Z puts it.

Sorry to ramble so.

[quote="Caveman, post:13, topic:204571"]
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who rush to defend this type of "Mass". And people wonder why The Church is dying in W. Europe and N. America.

[/quote]

Couldn't agree more.

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