The Mass in French?


#21

I've had the good fortune to attend a Mass in Paris and in a small church in the country side. I found the experience to be wonderful. My French is rather basic (though I can sing their national anthem), but I could easily follow the Liturgy. I was lost during the homily, but that was okay.

In Paris, no one spoke English, at least the one's I met. During the "Peace be with you", eyes got as big as saucers when I said it in English. Smiles.

In the Normandy country-side, much more friendly. Paris is like any large city (NY, Chicago, etc.). People are grumpy. There are still some good folks there.

I've also attended Mass where the language was German, Spanish, Chinese, and Malaysian. The Mass............felt right at home.


#22

Correct but in fact the video is definitely the Mass.


#23

[quote="OraLabora, post:22, topic:306940"]
Correct but in fact the video is definitely the Mass.

[/quote]

Oh, yes, I felt quite at home listening.

For those who wondered about the translation, I should point out that the French translation from the 70s is much closer to the Latin than the ICEL one ever was. Not surprising since it's also a Romance language.

The translation of the Third Typical Edition to French is not yet complete. In fact, according to the French side of the CCCB, we will be getting a new translation of the French Lectionaries before we get the new translated Missal.


#24

I understand close to zero French, which I would like to change, since my grandmother grew up speaking it (Cajun French, which I know has differences). But I absolutely love listening to it. Sounds so beautiful. I can actually sit and listen to all sorts of languages of which I have no knowledge. I just love languages and their differences/similarities.

Upupandaway, how is your French after living in France for 11 years? I remember you posting that you had some difficulties. Any improvement?

OP, I hope you can attend a French Mass soon. I know several parishes in Florida have creole Masses because of the proximity to Haiti, but these are of course different.


#25

From what I’ve heard of Cajun, the French is old, ca.17th-18th century, just as it is in certain small pockets of Canada where the French has not evolved much since ‘le grand dérangement’. The accent is different, some words are pronounced differently (‘cher’ comes to mind) and some words have evolved to mean something totally different (faire dodo, for example).

I kind of imagine this song meaning something different if it were being sung in New Orleans.:smiley:


#26

I love the rest of France (and of course Switzerland where I lived for a few years as a kid). The French people can be really charming and friendly - and generous hosts.

My experiences of Paris (though true - and unpleasant) were in the 70’s. I’ve not been back since. But when I go back I will say “Je suis Canadien” not Anglais.

I was in Normandie in the 90’s and had a great time. And I found the mass easy to follow.


#27

yes, the accent is very different. Here is a video of someone speaking Cajun French with English interspersed. I think it was made as a project by a college student (some of the universities there have Cajun French classes).

Can you understand him without the subtitles?
youtube.com/watch?v=wvPqifZqjM4


#28

[quote="anp1215, post:27, topic:306940"]
yes, the accent is very different. Here is a video of someone speaking Cajun French with English interspersed. I think it was made as a project by a college student (some of the universities there have Cajun French classes).

Can you understand him without the subtitles?
youtube.com/watch?v=wvPqifZqjM4

[/quote]

If I listen carefully, I can understand the narrator who is obviously thinking in English and translating as he goes. I notice the same thing when my boys speak French, since they don't speak it often. It's much less noticeable when my daughter speaks it since she lives at least 50% in French where she works and at home.

Mr. Sonny (funny how that name was used in the communities where I grew up too and I never knew the various Mr. Sonnys' real names) obviously thinks in French and his sentences are quite clear even if the accent & speed of his speech makes him hard to understand. I had to listen a few times. Sometimes he sticks in English words in the middle of the French in the same way we do but not quite to the level that the people in the Moncton/Shediac, New Brunswick are do. The patois there is known as 'Chiac' and this song is a prime example.

I thought it was interesting that Mr. Sonny called the woman who raised him Mamie Kauve, which they translate as 'Grandma Kauve'. Mamie is the name I picked for my grandson to call me, feeling too young for the Memére (Muh-mayr) that we called my grandmother and that my kids called my mom, and not being particularly fond of 'grand-maman'.


#29

[quote="Phemie, post:28, topic:306940"]
If I listen carefully, I can understand the narrator who is obviously thinking in English and translating as he goes. I notice the same thing when my boys speak French, since they don't speak it often. It's much less noticeable when my daughter speaks it since she lives at least 50% in French where she works and at home.

Mr. Sonny (funny how that name was used in the communities where I grew up too and I never knew the various Mr. Sonnys' real names) obviously thinks in French and his sentences are quite clear even if the accent & speed of his speech makes him hard to understand. I had to listen a few times. Sometimes he sticks in English words in the middle of the French in the same way we do but not quite to the level that the people in the Moncton/Shediac, New Brunswick are do. The patois there is known as 'Chiac' and this song is a prime example.

I thought it was interesting that Mr. Sonny called the woman who raised him Mamie Kauve, which they translate as 'Grandma Kauve'. Mamie is the name I picked for my grandson to call me, feeling too young for the Memére (Muh-mayr) that we called my grandmother and that my kids called my mom, and not being particularly fond of 'grand-maman'.

[/quote]

Thank you for answering. Yes, it's clear that the narrator planned what he was going to say and isn't a native speaker (like I said I think he did this for a class project). Here's another similar video of a woman speaking. This woman sounds and even looks almost exactly like my grandmother. It's almost eerie. youtube.com/watch?v=IZ5yV34QmFM
I love listening to these. They even have a radio station that broadcasts in French. After serious setbacks due to the government restricting the use of French, there is an effort to revive it. Some schools have French immersion programs. I haven't heard of any French Masses in the area, though.

It's a truly remarkable place.

Nice song, but weird hearing the English inserted. In the video above, the woman inserts "boyfriend" like the singer does.


#30

Sorry to all those who aren’t interested for being off-topic.

There is a typical sentence that we all tend to use when wanting to give an example of Chiac – “J’aime ta skirt mais j’aime pas la way qu’a hang.”

The usual joke is that even if you’re unilingual (whether English or French) you can always understand about 50% of a Chiac conversation.


#31

If one wants a french mass, watch salt and life tv. It has an active feed that is available by the internet. They have an active french mass from St Joseph's oratory at 8:30am and 7:30pm. They also have some terrific french programing.
saltandlighttv.org/

If you want a copy of the french mass, prions nous is the book to locate on the internet. I go to mass in french fairly often and it's amazing. There isn't much difference between the english, only the language. I find the mass in french more beautiful.

The Quebecois and french from Paris is different. Quebec french is more nasal while the Paris France is more elegant. That is normal. No matter where you go, language changes slightly. For example the English in Quebec is different from the English one hears in Ontario and New York.

Here is the link for masses in Paris.
paris.catholique.fr/-Messes-.html

You can also google messe paris, francais. It should provide several links.

Hope it helps,

SG


#32

[quote="SecretGarden, post:31, topic:306940"]

The Quebecois and french from Paris is different. Quebec french is more nasal while the Paris France is more elegant. That is normal. No matter where you go, language changes slightly. For example the English in Quebec is different from the English one hears in Ontario and New York.

[/quote]

As I mentioned in a previous post, my wife is Quebecois ( Drummondville). The Parisians did not like her French at all. We did meet up with one of my Irish cousins, who is married to a Frenchman and lives in Versailles.

She said my wife's Quebecois accent was like the French equivalent to someone speaking English with a hillbilly accent :P


#33

[quote="anp1215, post:24, topic:306940"]
I understand close to zero French, which I would like to change, since my grandmother grew up speaking it (Cajun French, which I know has differences). But I absolutely love listening to it.

[/quote]

You've obviously never heard me speak French :p

[quote="anp1215, post:24, topic:306940"]
Upupandaway, how is your French after living in France for 11 years? I remember you posting that you had some difficulties. Any improvement

[/quote]

Oh, my French improves all the time. Just not fast enough for my liking. Or my MIL's, but nothing I do makes her happy anyway. :shrug: Or my pastor's, and that's a problem because I work for him. :o My biggest blessing with the French language is that apparently I have almost no accent.

A year ago The Husband made all my phone calls for me because I couldn't understand people well enough to take care of my own business. Now I'm often in situations where I'm running the show, there's no one to help me if I get into a language bind, and there hasn't yet been an occasion when a problem came up that couldn't be solved.

I speak well enough to be able to converse at length (let's say a couple of hours) about a variety of topics, although it's still tiring. I can read pretty much anything, and I write French almost as naturally as I do my native tongue. I've had a few long one-on-one appointments with French priests and haven't had trouble conducting whatever business we had to conduct. If I have to attend Mass without my missal (on the weekends) or Magnificat (during the week), I'm still able to understand the liturgy without any trouble, although that's probably because I'm so used to it—I go to Mass daily. Since August, I confess exclusively in French, and believe me that was not an easy transition to make. So I guess you can say I've "arrived." From here on out it's fine tuning.


#34

[quote="SecretGarden, post:31, topic:306940"]
Here is the link for masses in Paris.
paris.catholique.fr/-Messes-.html

[/quote]

And here's one for Masses throughout France, although I have had varying degrees of success with it as far as accuracy goes.

ÉgliseInfo

Note that the site is exclusively in French, so depending upon how good one's French is an online translator may be helpful.

Bizarrely, MessesInfo, the related app I downloaded for my Android phone, is in English but that might be because the OS is set to English. I've had the phone for like four months and still don't quite know how it works. :blush:

Bonne chance :)


#35

[quote="UpUpAndAway, post:33, topic:306940"]
You've obviously never heard me speak French :p

Oh, my French improves all the time. Just not fast enough for my liking. Or my MIL's, but nothing I do makes her happy anyway. :shrug: Or my pastor's, and that's a problem because I work for him. :o My biggest blessing with the French language is that apparently I have almost no accent.

A year ago The Husband made all my phone calls for me because I couldn't understand people well enough to take care of my own business. Now I'm often in situations where I'm running the show, there's no one to help me if I get into a language bind, and there hasn't yet been an occasion when a problem came up that couldn't be solved.

I speak well enough to be able to converse at length (let's say a couple of hours) about a variety of topics, although it's still tiring. I can read pretty much anything, and I write French almost as naturally as I do my native tongue. I've had a few long one-on-one appointments with French priests and haven't had trouble conducting whatever business we had to conduct. If I have to attend Mass without my missal (on the weekends) or Magnificat (during the week), I'm still able to understand the liturgy without any trouble, although that's probably because I'm so used to it—I go to Mass daily. Since August, I confess exclusively in French, and believe me that was not an easy transition to make. So I guess you can say I've "arrived." From here on out it's fine tuning.

[/quote]

That's awesome. Good for you!


#36

[quote="OraLabora, post:11, topic:306940"]
I don't know of any differences between texts and translations between dioceses (other than priests that sometimes ad-lib... but I guess in the US that's fairly widespread too). Perhaps you're thinking back to the 60s when the translations weren't settled? Or that different churches use the different options available in the missal, for example for the penitential rite (which also exist in English).

Most churches use "Prions en église" missalettes. The translation is identical to that in the French missals from France, or the French version of Magnificat.

[/quote]

That could very well be it. For some reason, though, I thought that the indecision in terms of translation and wording had continued beyond the 1960's. Alas. Likely not a major concern then. :):thumbsup:


#37

Thanks to all! It looks like we’ll have a wealth of resources to look at over the coming months. And nothing is off-topic for us here, since we’re going to make a run at learning at least a little French given we have some eight months before we go :). I’ve already found some Pimsleur tapes for my daily commute. Wish me well lol.

Thanks!

JD


#38

If you’re interested, I believe at least one Mass at Notre Dame in France is in Gregorian chant.


#39

Yes, that would be the 10:00am Sunday Mass. If I'm not mistaken the canons of the cathedral chapter celebrate that Mass, though I have never attended it so I don't know for sure.

[quote="Traditium, post:37, topic:306940"]
we're going to make a run at learning at least a little French given we have some eight months before we go :). I've already found some Pimsleur tapes for my daily commute. Wish me well lol.

[/quote]

Bonne chance! French took me a long time to get a useful grasp of, but y'all are probably more clever than I am.


#40

While in Paris, if you can, be sure to go to (obviously) Notre Dame, but also, not far, on the Left Bank, there is the stunning St. Severin, and also on the Left Bank, St. Germain de Pres. There are, of course more stunning churches in Paris than you could possibly visit in a usual short trip, but those are all historic so you get much more “bang for the buck” if you go to mass in one of them. On the Right Bank, there is St. Eustache, where Moliere was baptised.

There is also a beautiful English Gothic Episcopal (US Episcopal Church) Cathedral of the Holy Trinity on Rue Georges V down the street from Champs Elysees.


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